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demonk 
The other white meat
Group: Members
Posts: 800
Joined: Aug. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 27 2002,04:37 |
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This should make for some good discussion.
Pledge Ruled Unconstitutional
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I'm just two people short of a threesome!
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editor
forum whore
Group: Members
Posts: 0
Joined: Jan. 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 27 2002,04:40 |
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Can you say "shitstorm"?
Naturally I agree with the law of separation of law and church.
what could happen otherwise is ugly.
btw, "under allah" etc
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Beldurin
Mayor of Detnet
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Posted on: Jun. 27 2002,04:51 |
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That is pure semantic nonsense. The significance of the Pledge is patriotic, not religious, and the context of the use of the word God is ceremonial, not religious.
Are they going to recall, ban, and destroy all of our current money? This is bullshit, the same bullshit that got prayers removed from high school graduations. If you don't believe in it, then don't listen. Don't repeat the words. It's not as if it hurts you.
I find it ludicrous that hate speech is protected under the Constitution, but the Pledge of Allegiance is not.
I'm going to stop now before I really work myself into a lather.
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If someone's ungrateful and you tell him he's ungrateful, okay, you've called him a name.
You haven't solved anything.
-- zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance
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Bozeman
Guardian
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Joined: Jun. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 27 2002,04:54 |
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Perhaps the end should be said "One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." That way the god question is avoided.
BTW, on CNN the ticker said the "under god" line was added to the pledge in the 50's.
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It's the pop-o-matic bubble, motherfucker!
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 27 2002,05:09 |
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our country is one nation, under god. we are not above god, and we follow god's laws. that is the significance. saying "one nation" is superfluous.
I think the whole matter is bunk. The constitution says freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. the purpose was so that the secular government wouldn't adobt a state religion, not to purge secular society of all mentions of religion of any sort.
The government should provide for defense, promote general welfare, and give everyone the freedom to persue happiness. The government should NOT provide for the general welfare or give people "happiness" at the expense of others.
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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Pravus Angelus
Codito Ergo Sum
Group: Members
Posts: 81
Joined: May 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 27 2002,05:16 |
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| Quote | | BTW, on CNN the ticker said the "under god" line was added to the pledge in the 50's. |
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The appeals court said that when President Eisenhower signed the legislation inserting "under God" after the words "one nation," he declared: "Millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty."
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"Lately, the only thing keeping me from being a serial killer is my distaste for manual labor"
--Dilbert
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Bozeman
Guardian
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Posts: 762
Joined: Jun. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 27 2002,05:59 |
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| Quote (CatKnight @ 27 June 2002,01:09) | | The constitution says freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. |
So, you HAVE to have a religion? Or if not, then put up with someone else's because they are the majority?
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It's the pop-o-matic bubble, motherfucker!
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 27 2002,06:24 |
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| Quote | | Or if not, then put up with someone else's because they are the majority? |
you don't have the right to not be annoyed.
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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Mhoraigh
stow-away
Group: Members
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Posted on: Jun. 27 2002,06:50 |
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It was added, I believe in 1954. Eisenhower sounds about right.
I stopped saying the pledge when I was a kid because of the words "Under God" so in one way I'm happy this was finally done.
So, what's next? "Our national currency has been declared unConstitutional because it says 'In God We Trust' on it" ????
Yes, the nation was created for freedom OF religion, not FROM religion, but we also shouldn't put words of one faith on our money or in our Pledge.
In response to the prayers at school comment, If it's a religious private school - more power to them...but not in public, not unless they want to bring in religious leaders/words from every existing religion. I'm fine with the moment of silence deal - then everyone can worship who they please. If you want me to ignore when someone is saying a prayer to the entire class, then you better be prepared to ignore me while I present my own beliefs to the same group - give equal time.
Ok, so I'm clearly confusing, at least to myself. I am sarcastic about the decision of the Court but I also support it. Look, I support the decision, I think they're right. With the money issue, though, it's been there so long that it'd be truly weird for it not to any more.
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dyingdays.com - Jennifer
"Captain Loob he taught me all about the ocean
he taught me how to sail the briny sea
And though I've tried to live clean
To me what's a good life mean
I'm a pirate, that's all I'll ever be."
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demonk
The other white meat
Group: Members
Posts: 800
Joined: Aug. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 27 2002,07:03 |
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You do realized why this was added to the Pledge back in the 50's, right? It was because of the communists. They didn't believe in any god, which we viewed as being very evil. So we made our kids "pledge" to God. Makes sense to me  .
The reason you can't have a line like this required by federal law to be recieted every morning is that not everyone believes in God, or a god, or even just one god. Hell, there are plenty out there that believe in a goddess (female) instead of a god (male). The test that the supreme court uses is that it must include all religious beliefs or it must not allow any. It's an all or none kind of deal, so when this does come before the supreme court they will uphold the ruling. Doesn't matter if the majority of this country is christian or that even a majority of this country is religous. If you do not allow for all religous views to be expressed, you can't let any be expressed. Simple test actually. Everyone gets treated the same.
The only reason people would want this in there is to force their religious views down the throats of children. And it does get their foot in the door for other legislation they want passed. Basicly, they want to turn this country, from head to toe, into one big christian country. Why they have this great need to make everyone believe as they do I have no idea.
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I'm just two people short of a threesome!
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