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Wolfguard 
Flyswatter of the Apocalypse
Group: Members
Posts: 1696
Joined: May 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 05 2002,13:34 |
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| Quote | I think the vast differences in compensation between the victims of the
September 11th casualty, and those who die serving the country in uniform, are profound. No one is really talking about it either because you just don't criticize anything having to do with September 11th. Well, I just
can't let the numbers pass by because it says something really disturbing about the entitlement mentality of this country.If you lost a family member in the September 11th attack, you're going to
get an average of $1,185,000. The range is a minimum guarantee of $250,000, all the way up to $4.7 million. If you are a surviving family member of American soldier killed in action, the first check you get is a $6,000 direct death benefit, half of which is taxable. Next, you get $1,750 for burial costs. If you are the surviving spouse, you get $833 a month until you remarry. And there's a payment of $211 per month for each child under 18. When the child hits 18, those payments come to a screeching halt.
Keep in mind that some of the people that are getting an average of $1.185 million up to $4.7 million are complaining that it's not enough.We also learned over the weekend that some of the victims from the Oklahoma City bombing have started an organization asking for the same deal that the September 11th families are getting. In addition to that, some of the families of those bombed in the embassies are now asking for compensation as well. You see where this is going, don't you?Folks, this is part and parcel of over fifty years of entitlement politics in this country. It's just really sad. "Patriotism is not a short and frenzied outburst of emotion but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime." --Adlai E. Stevenson, Jr. Every time when a pay raise comes up for the military they usually receive next to nothing of a raise. Now the green machine is in combat in the Middle East while their families have to survive on food stamps and live in lowrent housing. However our own U.S. Congress just voted themselves a raise, and many of you don't know that they only have to be in Congress one-time to receive a pension that is more than $15,000 per month and most are now equal to be millionaires plus. They also do not receive Social Security on retirement because they didn't have to pay into the system.If some of the military people stay in for 20 years and get out as an E-7 you may receive a pension of $1,000 per month, and the very people who placed you in harms way receive a pension of $15,000 per month. I would like to see our elected officials pick up a weapon and join ranks before they start cutting out benefits and lowering pay for our sons and daughters who are now fighting. |
This guy has really never said anything i totaly agree with till this.
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Fucknuggets flamed while you wait.
[url=http://www.teamwolfguard.com]TeamWolfguard.com[/url]
"screw the fireball spells...i got a case of WP grenades and a case of teddy bears!"
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| Post Number: 2
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Wiley
©0®ÞØ®4+3 whØ®3
Group: Members
Posts: 1268
Joined: Oct. 2001
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Posted on: Jun. 05 2002,15:39 |
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The difference is that when you join the military in the US (it is currently a choice as there is no draft) you assume a certain risk. If you are the sole support of your family then maybe you should rethink your career path. The victims of Sept 11th were civilians and were let down by our government who was supposed to protect them. I personally think we should honor the PD & Fire Dept of NY, but they should not get any more money then if they died at the scene of a routine fire ...as they were doing the same job and they were well aware of the risks.
The difference between the World Trade Center and the Oklahoma Federal building is that the trade center collapse was caused by a plane that was in Federally controlled air-space ...the federal government is held responsible for keeping us safe from all the planes in the sky. A bomb outside the building caused the Oklahoma bombing, the bomb never entered the federally protected walls of the building or any federally protected air space. Sure the Oklahoma tragedy points out the need for more security in the parking lot, but the government showed limited negligence with respect to being able to prevent such a bombing.
If the government didn't pay the people off they would have sued (and won) a lot more money.
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There's a sucker born every minute ...but swallowers are hard to find.
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Pravus Angelus
Codito Ergo Sum
Group: Members
Posts: 81
Joined: May 2002
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Posted on: Jun. 05 2002,16:06 |
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While I agree with everything Wiley says, part of the intent was an attack on the 'entitlement mentality' of the United States. Personally I don't see any reason to give massive handouts in the millions. Don't get me wrong, 9/11 was a tragedy, and obviously the federal government should (to a reasonable degree) be held accountable. But aside from paying for damages and a little extra, what's the justification for all the extra money?
Obviously reimbursement should be handed out. A little extra, while it won't alleviate the pain, is certainly a courteous gesture. But there's a lot of people in America who die every day because they can't afford health care. People die from such trivialities as influenza, simply because they can't afford vaccinations. $4 million can go a long way to saving a lot of lives. I'm not cold hearted, I feel sorry for 9/11 victims, but I also feel sorry for the forgotten people without health care, and for the people who live in high-crime areas without the money to hire more police officers. I have a hard time justifying $4 million to one victim, and not another (these are tax dollars...those same tax dollars that could have been spent on these other groups).
Same sort of reasoning applies to the money raised by individuals...although what private citizens want to do with their own money is their own business (although it's still a shame that only celebrity victims get the help they need).
Edited by Pravus Angelus on Jan. 01 1970,01:00
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"Lately, the only thing keeping me from being a serial killer is my distaste for manual labor"
--Dilbert
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| Post Number: 4
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Wolfguard
Flyswatter of the Apocalypse
Group: Members
Posts: 1696
Joined: May 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 05 2002,16:38 |
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| Quote | | Every time when a pay raise comes up for the military they usually receive next to nothing of a raise. Now the green machine is in combat in the Middle East while their families have to survive on food stamps and live in lowrent housing. However our own U.S. Congress just voted themselves a raise, and many of you don't know that they only have to be in Congress one-time to receive a pension that is more than $15,000 per month and most are now equal to be millionaires plus. They also do not receive Social Security on retirement because they didn't have to pay into the system.If some of the military people stay in for 20 years and get out as an E-7 you may receive a pension of $1,000 per month, and the very people who placed you in harms way receive a pension of $15,000 per month. I would like to see our elected officials pick up a weapon and join ranks before they start cutting out benefits and lowering pay for our sons and daughters who are now fighting. |
This is the part that pisses me off the most. The people that our out there getting shot at while defending this country getting screwed.
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Fucknuggets flamed while you wait.
[url=http://www.teamwolfguard.com]TeamWolfguard.com[/url]
"screw the fireball spells...i got a case of WP grenades and a case of teddy bears!"
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| Post Number: 5
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Wiley
©0®ÞØ®4+3 whØ®3
Group: Members
Posts: 1268
Joined: Oct. 2001
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Posted on: Jun. 05 2002,17:12 |
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Pravus Angelus, I agree with you there. It is a shame that people feel they are owed money as the result of a loss. And it seems like the more press you get about your loss then the more free money that you feel you're entitled to. Sure a plane hit the office of some poor people in NY, but every day some poor soul is struck by a bus going to work and his family doesn't see enough money to pay for the funeral.
This is why I have life insurence. I want to protect the future security of my wife and my family (if I have one in the future) and not count on some handout. While I'm glad to see some of the innocent victims got money to help rebuild their lives, I don't think the country OWES them any of it ...it should be taken as a sorry we fucked up and got you killed ...maybe this money will help ease the pain kinda thing. Don't we get enough from our country already?
Wolfguard ...I think the military doesn't get raises as much as they should because they are collectively willing to take the lowball amount that is currently given to them. Military paygrades are public information ...if you choose not to research it before signing up then why should the government foot the bill for increasing your salary? The only way for the military to get paid more is to get people to stop signing up for a few years and claiming that poor pay was the reason ...a few years of that and the government would be forced to offer more incentives. This is the same for teachers ...the only way for teachers to get paid more is for people to stop becoming teachers. It's supply and demand, if I have people willing to work for 30K/yr then why would I pay somebody with the same credentials 60K/yr? As for congress passing their own payraise, they all knew they could do that when they took the position ...they became polititions for the money!! Who was the last person you knew who wanted to become a teacher or join the Army to become rich? You can't fault somebody for doing exactly what they set out to do.
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There's a sucker born every minute ...but swallowers are hard to find.
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| Post Number: 6
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Wolfguard
Flyswatter of the Apocalypse
Group: Members
Posts: 1696
Joined: May 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 05 2002,17:57 |
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does not make it less fucked up
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Fucknuggets flamed while you wait.
[url=http://www.teamwolfguard.com]TeamWolfguard.com[/url]
"screw the fireball spells...i got a case of WP grenades and a case of teddy bears!"
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Darth Liberus
Emperor of Detnet
Group: Members
Posts: 2246
Joined: Jan. 1970
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Posted on: Jun. 06 2002,06:24 |
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I'm with Wolfguard on this one.
There are some cases where the free market mentality does not, and should not, apply.
One of them is military personnel.
Teachers are another one.
Screw their market value. Pay them what they're worth.
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"let's travel around with our laptops, plug in, and destroy the very fabric of modern reality." -a2n3d7y
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| Post Number: 8
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kuru
Detonate.net's 9mm wielding geek-hit-Goddess
Group: Members
Posts: 2566
Joined: Aug. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 06 2002,14:47 |
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Are you guys talking about government money through taxes, or the voluntary donations people poured out of their own pockets when the Red Cross said that those donations would go to the families of the vicitms?
Because if it's the latter, you're off base. People voluntarily donated their money to a specific fund designated to be distributed among the victims and their families. It was a good-faith act of humanity done by people who specified where they wanted their donation to go.
The wishes of the people who donated should be respected in that case.
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
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| Post Number: 9
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Bozeman
Guardian
Group: Members
Posts: 762
Joined: Jun. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 06 2002,15:09 |
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Perhaps we should decrease purchase of new weapons, and increase wages for soldiers. Then taxes woudn't increase, and soldiers would get enough cash to not qualify for food stamps.
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It's the pop-o-matic bubble, motherfucker!
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| Post Number: 10
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demonk
The other white meat
Group: Members
Posts: 800
Joined: Aug. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 06 2002,17:31 |
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Kuru, I'm pretty sure they were talking about our tax dollars going to the families of the survivors. I don't see how anyone could possibly complain about a group of people getting money that was donated directly to that group (but I bet CK can find an example).
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I'm just two people short of a threesome!
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