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CatKnight 
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 03 2002,00:25 |
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To those who think the republicans are trying to take away 'desperately needed funds' to public schools, who 'need every penny they can get', I ask you this. Why are the two best funded school systems in the country, Philly and DC, THE WORST public schools in the country, whos graduates don't know how to read? Students there recieve $18,000 for their education at this horribly run down schools. That's more then my tuition costs!
How did they get so bad? Because instead of punishing those who do poorly, the feel-good liberals want everyone to graduate, because 'failure leads to emotional scars' or some such nonsense. So, these kids pass no matter what they do, so there is no motivation to do better. I know, I went to one of these schools.
The teacher's union works in the same way. Does a 12th grade english teacher fail a teachers exam that is based on 12th grade material? Don't fire her, claim the test was unfair! Teachers unions and the department of education make these officials completely unaccountable to anyone, because there is no competition.
You see, it is in government program's interest to screw up. If the department of education does a piss-poor job, they claim that they need more money, and they get it. same goes for just about any government program. they get paid to screw up. furthermore, their programs will never be disbanded because that would put so many government employees out of work. So it is in their interest to always screw up, and to never 'fix' the problem. Same goes with jesse jackson. If racism went away tomorrow, he would be out of a job. He has to CREATE racism to embezel his millions.
How do we fix the problem? We can start with school vouchers, letting parents choose which school they want to send their kids to. Force public schools to compete in the free market, that way the teacher's union doesn't have the power to let incompetent teachers continue to work. Once people see that the voucher schools do much better, the public schools will be forced to either improve or shut down. Once this process begins to work, implement tax credits to those parents who send their kids to private schools. Then eventually, reform or disband the department of education (although I doubt this will ever happen).
Education has been going down the tube ever since the department of education was first created in the 70's. I think it's time to rectify their mistakes.
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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demonk
The other white meat
Group: Members
Posts: 800
Joined: Aug. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 03 2002,00:47 |
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CK, your basing your opinions on just a few extreme examples. Yes, those two schools such major ass. I have a feeling that there is some coruption in the adminitration though. You can't get that much money per student with seeing something for it (better paid teachers, better school groups, something). If not, then the money must not be actually staying in the schools. Can you say embezzeling? Wouldn't be the first time I've heard of that.
In my area of the country (Northwest), this is not happening. The teachers are all smart people who care about their students. If a student is failing, the teachers do their best to help them, because after all, that's why they are there. I've known plenty of students who didn't graduate because they chose to totally fuck around.
While I don't doubt the school you went to is as bad as you decribe it, that doesn't mean that all schools everywhere are as bad. Most are full of underpaid, overworked, dedicated teachers who just want to see their students succeed and be happy.
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I'm just two people short of a threesome!
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chmod
Jedi Knight
Group: Members
Posts: 373
Joined: Jul. 2001
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Posted on: Jun. 03 2002,01:32 |
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I agree with CK 100 percent.... the reason that public schools suck is that politicians think that throwing money at them will improve the problem. So rather than increase competition among schools (which is what really needs to happen) and teacher accountability, the shitty schools just become shitty schools with excessive funding.
Vouchers would be the necessary incentive to get public schools to clean up their act and reach a level comparable to private schools.... I don't get why people think it's going to "trap underprivileged kids in failing schools" like Al Gore says.
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 03 2002,02:01 |
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You just sort of proved my point demonk. Your school, where the teachers are underpaid and overworked, are half-decent. the ones that recieve a lot of money are the ones that are corrupt and failing. so why do we need to give them even more money? the solution is to give them LESS money and force them to compete.
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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demonk
The other white meat
Group: Members
Posts: 800
Joined: Aug. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 03 2002,02:11 |
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I don't know 100% how the funding works, so I'm just going to guess.
When the money is being doled out, they look at how many students you have. They look at how much you were given last year and how much you are asking for this year. They base the amount they give you apon how much you spent in particular areas (whole other rant about why you can't spend the extra money left over from buying computers on other things), and then say we will give you X amout per student. Now, when students start to leave, they start to take that X amount with them. While it does seem logical that it shouldn't really affect those students who are left, it will. The costs of running the school physically don't change linearly with the number of students present. So, as the number of students decrease, the percent of money each student gets spent on running the school increases. Instead of using (I'm just throwing numbers out here) 40% on basic building maintance when you have 4000 students, you have to spend 60% when there are 3000 students. Buildings still need to be heated, lights powered, and interenet payed for. These don't change with the number of students. That means that less is left over for the students left. Teachers will be fired inorder to make up for this, thus increasing the unemployment rate (hell, if a public school doesn't want a teacher, why would a private school?).
It's very said to say this, but this will always increase the racial gap in our country. A significant percentage of the poor are minorities. They wouldn't be able to pay for private school even with the vouchers, while the predominate white middle-class students can. So, you will have private schools made up of mostly white students and public schools made up of the minorities. This just helps to reinforce the seperatism that is a problem in our country. It sets up the idea that whites are better since they have the nicer schools and the better, easier future ahead of them, and the minorities are left with the run down, underfunded, ill-staffed schools and a future of nothing but struggle to get just a small part of what private school kids are handed.
I agree that there are problems in the education system. But jumping ship via vouchers will not fix the situation, but make the larger problems even bigger and create new ones. I have more, but I think this is enough to get CK foaming at the mouth.
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I'm just two people short of a threesome!
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 03 2002,03:04 |
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voucher schools ARE public schools, and I'd MUCH rather "jump ship" then stay with a sinking one!!
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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| Post Number: 7
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demonk
The other white meat
Group: Members
Posts: 800
Joined: Aug. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 03 2002,03:59 |
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Who told you voucher schools are public schools? They are private! They can turn away any student they want to! If the student isn't the right religion, doesn't know the right people, isn't the right nationality, they can be turned away. Hence the name PRIVATE!
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I'm just two people short of a threesome!
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| Post Number: 8
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Dysorderia
Kryten 2X4B 523P
Group: Members
Posts: 1061
Joined: Jul. 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 03 2002,04:34 |
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| Quote (CatKnight @ 02 June 2002,19:25) | | <see ck's first post> |
good idea CK, but such ideas aren't easy to implement.
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Sir? May I recommend I load myself into the reverse-thrust tubes and you use my body as decoy-fodder? This will, of course leave me splattered across deep space and unable to complete today's laundry, for which I apologise in advance.
[url=http://www.kr1cket.com]www.kr1cket.com[/url]
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veistran
We don't listen to people that don't like us.
Group: Members
Posts: 967
Joined: May 2000
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Posted on: Jun. 03 2002,20:57 |
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There needs to be a fundamental change in how our public schools go about teaching people in general. A considerable portion of the whole "school experiance" is devoted to making you into a good factory worker.
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V|-
"Headed down the hard way
Concrete battleground
Urban monkey warfare
Sabotage underground camouflage"
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TheTaxMan
Controversial Thug
Group: Members
Posts: 874
Joined: Apr. 2001
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Posted on: Jun. 03 2002,21:27 |
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| Quote (CatKnight @ 02 June 2002,18:01) | | You just sort of proved my point demonk. Your school, where the teachers are underpaid and overworked, are half-decent. the ones that recieve a lot of money are the ones that are corrupt and failing. so why do we need to give them even more money? the solution is to give them LESS money and force them to compete. |
Yeah, cut salary for teachers, that's the intelligent thing to do.
Instead of requiring degrees to teach, or paying them so not everyone feels the need to be a prof in college we should cut their pay? That's foolish. Every math teacher I had in HS had at least a Masters in something to do w/ math and guess what? I know math. MY teachers for english all had at least masters degrees in english and guess what? I know how to read and write! Pay teachers and require degrees. Take money out of defense, and put it into the education system. Pay teachers more. Do it! Require degrees. Do it! My sister is in the shitty Fla. HS system and she isn't learning shit. You know why? The teachers all suck horribly. I have to teach this kid math becasue they're isn't a single person in a 30 mi. radius that wants to teach at a HS. Why? They don't get paid for what they have to do. These people are responsible for everything that will eventually happens in the country and we pay them nothing. Fail the fuck ups, and pay the literate, learned teachers.
That is all.
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Four billion years of evolution and this is all we have to show for it?
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