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damien_s_lucifer 
Emperor of Detnet
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Joined: Jan. 1970
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Posted on: May 22 2002,02:13 |
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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
I have highlighted the first half of the text because it usually gets ignored.
We can rewrite the statement as follows :
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed upon [by Congress] because a well-regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free State."
Which means that 1. the RIGHT to keep and bear arms is derived from the need for security; it is not absolute; 2. each State has the responsibility to make sure its militia (all gun-owning citizens) is well-regulated; and 3. Congress and the Federal government have no business telling the states how to regulate their militias.
In short, gun control is a STATE issue, not a FEDERAL one.
Right now, the state militias are in fucking chaos.
Discuss.
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veistran
We don't listen to people that don't like us.
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Joined: May 2000
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Posted on: May 22 2002,02:31 |
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,52223,00.html?
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"The current position of the United States ... is that the Second Amendment more broadly protects the rights of individuals, including persons who are not members of any militia or engaged in active military service or training, to possess and bear their own firearms," Solicitor General Theodore Olson wrote in two court filings this week. |
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"Headed down the hard way
Concrete battleground
Urban monkey warfare
Sabotage underground camouflage"
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
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Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: May 22 2002,02:56 |
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back in the 1780's, the term "well regulated" meant "well trained", in other words, it meant people should know how to use guns well. it did NOT mean regulated in the modern sense of state or federal regulation.
DSL you have completely lost the spirit of the 2nd amendment. the purpose of it was to prevent the government from disarming its citizenry, because that leads to tyranny.
oh yeah and the state militias are not in total chaos, where the hell did you pull that out of? you must have a lot of extra room up there!
jesus christ every time i go back to proof read i miss another line of your bullshit. literally every single line is outright wrong! the right for individuals to bear arms doesn't derive from the need for security, it derives from FREEDOM.
in my opinion, the 2nd amendment should have been the first. because without the right to bear arms, there can be no freedom of speech.
Edited by CatKnight on Jan. 01 1970,01:00
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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Beastie Dr
I will abort you.
Group: Members
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Posted on: May 22 2002,03:01 |
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I think this is where the supreme court comes in.
End discussion.
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"Bladow, blazwoks!"
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
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Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: May 22 2002,03:06 |
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back in the 1780's, the term "well regulated" meant "well trained", in other words, it meant people should know how to use guns well. it did NOT mean regulated in the modern sense of state or federal regulation.
i thought this was important enough to re-emphasize.
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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Beastie Dr
I will abort you.
Group: Members
Posts: 293
Joined: Apr. 2002
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Posted on: May 22 2002,03:13 |
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You are not appointed, so nobody gives a fuck what you think. Shouldn't you be happy enough that SCJ-conservative-fuck Rehnquist is there for you? He graduated from my HS, btw, which is now exceedingly liberal.
Nice job on the picture, fucktard.
[good thing nobody noticed I said they were elected.]
Edited by Beastie Dr on Jan. 01 1970,01:00
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"Bladow, blazwoks!"
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: May 22 2002,03:16 |
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Edited by CatKnight on Jan. 01 1970,01:00
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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damien_s_lucifer
Emperor of Detnet
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Posted on: May 22 2002,03:26 |
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first, the Executive and Legislative branches do not have jurisdiction over legal interpretations of the Constitution, so whatever the Solicitor General says is irrelevant.
second, even if you interpret "well regulated" as "well trained," the Second Amendment explicitly notes that it is NECESSARY that individual States ensure their citizens are well-trained - and since the execution of State responsibilities is vested in their Legislatures, their Legislatures obviously have the right to regulate guns and their owners.
the number of gun owners who are NOT well trained is ridiculous - that's why I say state militias are in total chaos.
and finally, the purpose of the Second Amendment is to prevent the Federal government from eliminating State militias (thus giving the Feds more authority than the States), and States from eliminating their OWN militias.
What you, ck, and most other Second Amendment nuts fail to understand is this :
if you know how to handle a gun responsibly - and yes, the States do have the authority to verify this - than they cannot deny you the right to own one.
It does NOT make gun ownership a free for all.
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veistran
We don't listen to people that don't like us.
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Posted on: May 22 2002,03:36 |
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| Quote (damien_s_lucifer @ 21 May 2002,21:26) | | first, the Executive and Legislative branches do not have jurisdiction over legal interpretations of the Constitution, so whatever the Solicitor General says is irrelevant. |
you have no clue how things actually work do you? I'm sorry but that's all I can say to that and the rest of your posts, they sound like the rantings of a lunatic, I mean liberal.
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"Headed down the hard way
Concrete battleground
Urban monkey warfare
Sabotage underground camouflage"
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| Post Number: 10
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CatKnight
Jedi Republican
Group: Members
Posts: 3807
Joined: Dec. 2000
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Posted on: May 22 2002,03:38 |
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| Quote | | second, even if you interpret "well regulated" as "well trained," the Second Amendment explicitly notes that it is NECESSARY that individual States ensure their citizens are well-trained |
what? did you forgot your own first post??
| Quote | | A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, |
"being nescessary to the security for a free state"
it says a well-regulated militia is nescessary for a free state, NOT that it is nescessary for the milita to be regulated for a free state!
the number of gun owners who are trained FAR EXCEEDS the number of illegal/untrained owners by a factor of something like 100,000 to 1. again, you are pulling statements STRAIGHT OUT OF YOUR ASS!
Edited by CatKnight on Jan. 01 1970,01:00
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[url=http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/b/dbl125/dfa.jpg]If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine.[/url]
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