Topic: Our government
started by: Beastie Dr
Posted by Beastie Dr on May 16 2002,05:11
< http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/dope/talk >I've been thinking a lot about this lately, but I honestly feel sick about it now. I'm reading all of these opinions, seeing how many people agree with me, realizing it is a fraction of a percent of the total. Then, realizing we are powerless to fight against a government that is supposed to represent us. How can they do that, when they don't even tell the truth to us?
Posted by Bozeman on May 16 2002,06:08
I'm sorry to hear your disheartenment Beastie Dr. Sadly, the cry of futility in this point is the norm. You can't vote for a major party candidate who is pro-marijuana, because they don't exist. If you can't be active, try to do what small things you can. Stick up for the cause to relatives, friends, or even strangers who try to say it's a "gateway drug," or "ruining America." Remain calm, and present your side smootly, without name calling or accusations. If everyone who believed in ending the drug war stuck up for what they believe in, and did what little they could, perhaps the bleak future could have a bright outcome.I'm not the one who should be talking, I've never TRIED pot. Hear some real good stuff by listening to Jello Biafra's newest album, "Become the Media," or an older one "I Blow Minds For A Living."
"We need fuel, we need paper. It's almost gone, where are we going to get more? The answer for centuries has been right under our nose: GROW MORE POT!"
-Jello Biafra, Grow More Pot, "I Blow Minds For A Living"
Posted by Beldurin on May 16 2002,08:43
And remind me again of the good side of pot? I can't seem to remember.This may be an unpopular view around here, but I think illicit drugs are that way for a reason: they're harmful. And don't give me that shit about alcohol being worse than marijuanna, because I don't buy that arguement...at all.
Posted by Necromancer on May 16 2002,14:56
yes because the world of drugs is all happy and smiley. remember kids hemp makes a good strong rope.Simple fact you can't get passively drunk. Pot has some good uses for medicinal purposes (though i doubt thats the real reason why most people use that as an excuse to get it legalised) but then leeches was a good idea for cortarising wounds.
all drugs are used irresponsibly by the masses. This doesnt give the few people who do use certain drugs "responsibly" the right to complain about it being illegal.
the government has enough trouble funding educational schemes on alcohol and nicotine abuse without having to deal with pot as well.
And pot is addictive. it's a psycological addiction.
Hey i don't expect you to agree with me but anything that involves inhaling fumes into your lungs is stupid. Theres only one thing thats 100% healthy to breath in them things and thats oxygen (and inert gases but thats neither here no there cos they're fucking inert)
Posted by CatKnight on May 16 2002,18:11
i like what they did in england. it's still illegal but the punishment is basically just a slap on the wrist for possession.
Posted by veistran on May 16 2002,18:26
| Quote (Beldurin @ 16 May 2002,02:43) |
| And remind me again of the good side of pot? I can't seem to remember. This may be an unpopular view around here, but I think illicit drugs are that way for a reason: they're harmful. And don't give me that shit about alcohol being worse than marijuanna, because I don't buy that arguement...at all. |
Medically speaking, from all I've ever been able to find the main difference between alcohol and pot is that they can cause different kinds of cancer if they're abused.
Posted by Beastie Dr on May 16 2002,20:48
Yeah, I'm not for complete legalization by any means, that would cause too many problems. The truth is, the nation is too conservative to deal with it. I'm for decriminalization, say, a fine in the $150-$200 range for anything over a gram, but it doesn't go on your record once it's paid. As for the statement that the government already has enough to pay for, that's just fucking stupid. Remember, we spend $10 Billion on the drug war with NO RESULT. As for "responsible" use, remember: a drug is a drug, be it marijuana or alcohol. No physical addiction, and, personally, I have never, ever, felt a psycological need to smoke
Posted by BlackFlag on May 16 2002,21:05
its not physicaly addictive, but i do know people who are psycologicly dependant (addicted). Its a really fucked up thing.
Posted by Beastie Dr on May 16 2002,23:29
I know some of these people too, but all of them were complete idiots before they started smoking. Some people who smoke a lot and don't stop seem to be socially stunted. A good example from a friend of mine:"I don't go out looking to smoke, but we always get around to it, somehow. You sit there, 'What to do?' And we always end up smoking for lack of anything better."
Posted by Necromancer on May 17 2002,01:21
yes they may be idiots, but the law is there to protect those idiots from themselves. If everyone were logically thinking and thought everything through we wouldnt need laws now would we 
Posted by Beastie Dr on May 17 2002,04:15
I'm not sure how old you are, or how many people you know that smoke, but if you don't know many....A few daily smokers:
-All-state senior hockey player who will be playing in Juniors
-DII Tennis Champ
-Star Midfielder at UWM
As for the protecting people from themselves: What the fuck? The government is not there to protect people from themselves, it is only there to make sure these people do not infringe upon the rights of others.
Posted by Bozeman on May 17 2002,04:22
| Quote (Beldurin @ 16 May 2002,04:43) |
| And remind me again of the good side of pot? I can't seem to remember. This may be an unpopular view around here, but I think illicit drugs are that way for a reason: they're harmful. And don't give me that shit about alcohol being worse than marijuanna, because I don't buy that arguement...at all. |
Well, if there has to be a positive side to it for it to be legal, alcohol might become illegal. I can see no positive side to alcohol that cannot draw a corrolary to a positive side of pot. For example, certain chemicals in red wine can promote cardiary health, and marijuana can be used as a medical supplement. (it's great for AIDS patients, it dulls pain, and increases appetite) My point is that it seems hypocritical to keep hemp outlawed, when there are other things that are harmful which are legal.
Pot is not more harmful than alcohol, but even if it were, alcohol can still cause harm. If one is legal, both should be.
Edit: sentence structure was awkward
Posted by Necromancer on May 17 2002,15:15
And how do you suppose we go about preventing getting high passively. It doesnt work like smoking where there are smoking areas because you can't get high off of smoking.| Quote |
| Pot is not more harmful than alcohol, but even if it were, alcohol can still cause harm. If one is legal, both should be. |
what? so you mean we should have 2 dangerous substances legal as opposed to just the one just because the one you like the most isnt the legal one?
Hmm the people i do know who smoke pot. They aren't bad people or stupid. One has to go to a drug clinic each week so they can help him get off pot and heroin. the former led to the other. He has two kids to support on top of this. The others are mostly at uni. Ones an ex para so is fucked in the head anywayz so it doesnt matter much to him
another one i know just spent everyday enclosed in his room practically living off the stuff.My system is designed to deal with toxins such as alcohol of which i don't drink all day everyday. Lungs can't regrow their damaged tissue so if they get damaged its permanent I'm not prepared to breath pot in for a fix i dont need.
Posted by Bozeman on May 17 2002,16:34
| Quote (Necromancer @ 17 May 2002,11:15) |
| what? so you mean we should have 2 dangerous substances legal as opposed to just the one just because the one you like the most isnt the legal one? |
Well, I was trying to put forward the idea that this is a double standard. Both can be dangerous, but both can be used recreationally safely. Why is one legal and the other not?
If pot were legal, I would be all for designated smoking areas, closed off from other areas so smoke couldn't spread. Now you would have a three way choice at restaurants!
"Smoking, Non-smoking, or Reefer section sir?"
But seriously, if pot were legal it shold be banned in government buildings, and other areas whrere smoke buildup could be a problem. Outside would still be ok, just like it is for cigarrette smokers. Perhaps some rules akin to alcohol. You can't go to work drunk, so you shouldn't be able to go high. No drinking and drving, so no driving while stoned.
Oh, and by the way, I don't like pot OR alcohol. I just think it's silly to ban one and not the other.
Posted by CatKnight on May 17 2002,19:35
| Quote (Beastie Dr @ 16 May 2002,15:15) |
| As for the protecting people from themselves: What the fuck? The government is not there to protect people from themselves, it is only there to make sure these people do not infringe upon the rights of others. |
DING DING DING DING! You win!
btw that should apply universally, to welfare, SS, socialized medicine, etc.
Posted by Beldurin on May 18 2002,00:35
| Quote (Beastie Dr @ 16 May 2002,22:15) |
| As for the protecting people from themselves: What the fuck? The government is not there to protect people from themselves, it is only there to make sure these people do not infringe upon the rights of others. |
I agree, except for the fact that people smoking infringes on my right...and my health. So, in conclusion: ban cigarrette smoking, too.
Posted by Beastie Dr on May 18 2002,01:33
Well, driving cars infringes on my health, so ban that too. Anyways, smoking can at least be done at home. Not too many people are willing to spark a joint out in public, at least in the US.
Posted by C_Puppy on May 23 2002,21:31
Hey, Of course you all remember when alcohol was as illegal as Pot right? We had mobsters up the ass, more people died because of it, and when we legalized alcohol-- what happened? NOTHING, so sure stuff like cocaine and crack- crystal meth, and heroin should be kept on the illegal side of things. Why you ask? Because those drugs as was said earlier in this thread, cause a Hell of alot more harm than the legal recreational drugs (caffine, alcohol, effedrine, and especially nicotein) do and I say that with as many people that use Mary Janes these days-- I believe that the goverment would save more lives if they regulated it-- then taxed it to pay for any treatment programs needed.When fermented elderberrys first came out in the early to mid 18th century to be sold as Gin in england -- the lower classes who were forced into poverty, unemployed because of the industrial revolution got fuckin drunk as a life-style for several decades. Sure alcohol is addictive but anything can be habbit forming if you feel it helps you escape a hopless situation.
So okay a little off the initial point-- but all I have to say is I would rather tax a relatively non-addictive substance than pay for the 60-70% of all prisioners doing time for drug related charges.
Posted by redpanic on May 24 2002,17:48
The only problem I have with legalizing any of this is that people, left to their own devices, will generally abuse their privileges. On the other hand, people who just flat out don't like something, will argue to the death why it should be banned.
Consider this - If we were to legalize pot, it would certainly gain popularity just as alcohol has. If it gets to the point that there is a problem, or it can no longer be controlled, then we can never take it away. Once the public has the freedom, they are unwilling to give it up.
The case with alcohol is similar. Alcohol has become fairly accepted overall. We cannot simply "ban alcohol" after society has already become accustomed to it. Our only recourse now are national "dont drink and drive" campaigns and special interest groups. The drug has spawned a myriad of problems and anti-abuse programs to go along with it. Legalizing alcohol left us with no other recourse but to deal with the problematic result of our actions.
I suspect that if we legalized marijuana, the same would happen.
If we can agree that the potential for [the] abuse of pot is the same as it is for alcohol - then we can also agree that the potential for problems as a result of legalization is just as real.
PS: I have plenty of friends that smoke pot. I hold nothing against them - it's their choice. I'll just never hire them - that's my choice.