Topic: Excerpts of a Flame War!
started by: ic0n0
Posted by ic0n0 on Feb. 10 2002,10:10
02-10-02 04:32:37 AM Bevets Swingline Stapler
ahh...bevets...you are begging the question again...you say he was resurrected(a bible story) and you use the bible to back it up...
Do you disbelive the resurrection because you dont believe the bible or do you disbelieve the bible because you dont believe the resurrection?
The bible is a collection of eye witness accounts.
1 Corinthians 15.3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles
Acts 26.26 The king is familiar with these things, and I can speak freely to him. I am convinced that none of this has escaped his notice, because it was not done in a corner.
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02-10-02 04:34:58 AM Icono
SS: Right but the point I am making is that the Christian right generally sees abortion as wrong, and they claim also to have the moral absolute but yet the god they worship doesn't hold himself to act by the rules he set's because he is god! And god cannot be wrong! So really they cannot have a moral absolute because they don’t hold god to act like he accepts them to act. A stunning hypocrisy. And accepting hypocrisy within a system that clams to not have any is well illogical.
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02-10-02 04:36:48 AM Axias
Swingline:
I'm looking for hypocrisy but I'm having a hard time finding it. Mind pointing it out? Have you read my earlier posts? Particulary concerning bibliographic proof? I don't see what I could possiby be disillusioned about. Why would you NOT possible believe in God?
Are you omniscient? No. So you don't know everything. Maybe there is proof of God, have you ever looked?
What is beyond the farthest star? Empty void? What's outside the void? Infinity? What made the infinity? chance? What was there before the stars? Emptiness? Outside, around the emptiness, what was there? How big is infinity? What is outside of infinity?
Mathematics draws an interesting parallel to truth. It is the closest language we have OF preciseness. Do you know the limitations of explaining infinite sets? It boils down to limitations of finite statements not being adequate to describe calculations describing the infinite. Do you see where I'm going here?
Einstein often pondered this when thinking about his complete theory of everything (The holy grail of quantum physics) : "Did God have choices when he made the rules?"
Again: I have far more evidence, in support of the existence of God than anything otherwise. The Bible is but a single tenet of thousands of proofs. I should ask you, where is your proof that God does not exist?
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02-10-02 04:37:39 AM Cutter
Axias, Swingline essentially posted what I'm posting now. How do you know that the Apostles weren't deceived? We've only got their word for it after all.
You can't prove they weren't deceived anymore than I can prove they were.
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02-10-02 04:37:50 AM Apparent Nuisance
Bevets: Eyewitness accounts are notoriously innacurate, especially if time passes or the witnesses are tainted. Should I believe every eyewitness account from 2000+ years ago by simple people who also "knew" many other fallacies long since disproven?
Also, I notice you haven't responded to any of my posts. Do those bible verses that are the unquestioned word of God not suit your argument?
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02-10-02 04:39
4 AM Swingline Stapler bevets
you ask this question "Do you disbelive the resurrection because you dont believe the bible or do you disbelieve the bible because you dont believe the resurrection?" like there can be one without the other...as far as i know there can't be...though your acts quote raises an interesting question
if i am in a corner can he not see what i am doing?
and also what proof do you have these are eyewitness accouts?...they are all written in the third person...that sounds like hearsay to me..
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02-10-02 04:40:26 AM Icono
Bevets prove the bible’s eyewitness accounts are correct? All you have is the bible itself proclaiming it’s own righteousness and you can’t use that to establish itself as an authority.
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02-10-02 04:42:52 AM Farkg
christians... giving jesus a bad name since 0 AD.
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02-10-02 04:42:58 AM Apparent Nuisance
Axias: I don't need to prove a god exists to dismiss it. You claim it to exist, you provide evidence of it. With your method I could claim the entire univese is a computer program run by a seven year old child. Prove it isn't. Prove that I am not God. Prove that there aren't thirty real gods all competing for our attention. Prove Zeus isn't supreme. You can't, obviously.
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02-10-02 04:47:33 AM DirkValentine
just because you cannot live life without a god, doesn't make it exist. it doesn't mean it doesn't either. but what it does mean is that you have no room for chance in your life, which happens to be what life is all about.
2+2=4
we are here + human ideas <> god
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02-10-02 04:47:39 AM Astrocat
"To hang all this desperate sociology on the idea of The Cloud-Guy who has The Big Book, who knows if you've been bad or good - and CARES about any of it - to hang it all on that, folk, is the chimpanzee part brain working.
Any who want's religion is welcome to it as far as I'm concerned - I suport your right to enjoy it. However, I would appreciate it if you exhibited more respect for the rights of those people who do not wish to share your dogma, rapture, or necrodestination."
- FRANK ZAPPA
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02-10-02 04:48
1 AM Swingline Stapler axias
you haven't been reading MY earlier posts...i believe in God...but think that religion is crap...and you prove it by judging me and thinking you are better than me..even though i am loosely one of you...i also think it is wrong that christians put jesus on a higher pedestal then God...and of course you don't see hypocrisy..you swear by the bible...hypocrisy is found is that God says that all the kingdoms are on earth because he put them there..then bevets brought up the "give to caesar what is caesars and to god what is gods"..and said that is proof that God takes care of those he does not want to be in charge...or does this only apply to Christian run areas...
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02-10-02 04:51:54 AM Swingline Stapler
i believe in god...but if i had any...my proof that God doesn't exist is as strong as your proof that he does...for you to prove that God exists you would cite all the good things in the world... to prove He doesn't all one has to do is cite the bad things in the world and ask "why would he let this happen?"
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02-10-02 04:53:42 AM Max Load
"Remember, there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over."
Some more Zappa.
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02-10-02 04:54
1 AM Axias Icono, Swingline read the earlier posts or shut up.
I suppose everyone who has ever had an experience with The Holy Spirit are lunatics from your perspective. And of course, following your perspective to conclusion: every witnessed miracle in history is a hoax. And Jesus is a liar and a fraud. And the apostles likewise. And of course we are here perchance, with no meaning, in a Godless universe, for a brief life of no consequence.
Uh huh. Sure.
You boys are pathetic and I pity you both. You'll be in my prayers tonite, goodnite and sweet dreams.
-Troy
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02-10-02 04:55:16 AM Gelatinous
Drew Curtis' 700 Club.
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02-10-02 04:56:46 AM Cutter
Well fun as this threads been, I've got an appointment in the morning. 'Nite all.
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02-10-02 04:57:27 AM Icono
There is a likely hood somewhere in all the probabilities of the universe that Jesus was resurrected and that he is what you clam Bevets. But there is also a good probability that it didn’t happen or didn’t happen the why it was recorded. Maybe Jesus was in a coma? Maybe Jesus was in some kind of status; maybe he was even poisoned and given an antidote when his bosy was brought to the tomb. Can you rule out all of these possibilities? No. Nor can I rule out the possibility the Jesus is the son of god and out savoir, I cannot rule out anything. But I cannot say with an absolute certainly that the people around Jesus where all holy men and had good intentions for his works either. Maybe they killed Jesus? Maybe Jesus was getting to preachy (no pun intended) maybe the new religion thing was a money making opportunity or an attempt to expel the Romans from Palestine. I don’t know there are so many options. Maybe Jesus didn’t exist at all. All of these things are possibilities of things that might have happened there are obviously more possabitties that are infinite. Since nothing is certain you cannot prove what happened by quoting a book that is of a questionable nature like the bible who’s origin can not be known with an absolute certainly. I never said i was an atheist Axias and you have no right to tell me to shut up.
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02-10-02 04:58:22 AM Swingline Stapler
axias
if you can't keep it civil maybe you SHOULD leave...practice what you preach...how dare you put yourself on the same shelf as God by judging us...oh i forgot being a fundy means you can do that...and fundy's are crazy...look at the fundy muslims..
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02-10-02 05
1:58 AM Icono Axias you are the one who should be pitied not for your religious views but for your view that we are somehow less than you and your all mighty god. People who end conversations like you just did are truly weak and truly small-minded.
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02-10-02 05
6:31 AM Icono Judge not! Heh, it is great to see that philosophy at work
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