What I can't stand are the people who find it completely acceptable to be driving and talking on their cell phones. Most of the people on the roads barely have enough brainpower to drive (see my Don't use their blinkers rant), let alone drive and talk at the same time. Most of the people I see driving really stupidly or dangerously are on their cell phones.

WHAT IS SO FUCKING IMPORTANT THAT YOU MUST RISK YOUR LIFE AND THE LIVES OF EVERY MOTORIST WITHIN A HALF MILE RADIUS OF YOU?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Just hang up the phone if it is personal, or pull over at the next exit and call them back! If it is a very important business call, then pull over and take it. But don’t' be driving around in rush hour traffic paying more attention to your phone than to your driving!

The city I live in is considering a ban on hand held cell phones while in a moving vehicle if you are driving. Great! More people will live! I would go as far as to say that even hands free cell phones should be banned. I've heard of a product being developed called a 'Cell buster' that looks like a smoke detector and that jams cell phone signals. We must line the highways and freeways of every country in the world with these things. That will stop them!

Anyone else agree/disagree?

[This message has been edited by demonk (edited September 05, 2000).]

Just my opinion. Besides, a hands-free unit gives you the option of more communication power since it's not up against your head.

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A good programmer is someone who looks both ways on a one-way street

excuse me a sec.

hello?

yes.

no. no way! I thought it was just me.

Sure, I'll be over in a few minutes. Yep, Im taking a left just now.

ok, bye.

Anyway where was I?

dont do it, foo.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sithiee:
...its about as dangerous as driving somewhat drunk......so they cant conveniently stop the conversation to let you drive. thusly, youre in much more danger when talking on a cell phone.

---

That's the same kind of irresponsible crap that's shown up here time and time again. Are you honestly saying that the driver couldn't say "Holy shit! There's an accident ahead!" and have the person on the other end realize what was going on? People in the back seat of the car don't always see what's ahead either. Don't try to place the blame on the person on the other side of the phone.

------------------
A good programmer is someone who looks both ways on a one-way street

three years ago i was in the back seat of a stopped car that was rear ended by another car. the driver of the other car never attempted to slow down. she was going 65 mph in a posted 45 mph zone. she was also on her cell phone.

thanks to the fact that her attention was on her conversation and not on the road, four people nearly died. would i care as much if this was just some tv news story? probably not. but it happened to me. i don't give a shit what business you have to do, what grocery list you forgot, whose anniversary it is, it's not worth my life. if you wanna make phone calls, get off the road.

being on a cell phone while driving, whether it's hands-free or hand-held, removes your ability to pay adequate attention to the road. luckily, i'm living proof that divided attention on the road is a bad idea. it could easily have been worse. paying attention to anything other than driving can kill someone. this includes talking to other people in the car, singing and "dancing" along to the radio, eating your breakfast/lunch/dinner, reading the newspaper, applying make-up, making notes in your pda, etc (ever see those Lexus safety ads?). keep your hands on the wheel, your eyes on the road, and your brain on the driving, cause i don't want any free trips to the morgue.

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kuru
'if your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd kill you in your sleep.' -frank zappa

If I'm using the larger one.. which is more like a car phone then a cell, I can prop it on my shoulder, keep eyes on the road and both hands on the wheel and basiclly "uh-huh" whatever they're saying, and can usually get the main gist of what was said.

Of course this could be because I'm used to driving while talking on a VHF 2-way a lot of the time as well. But trust me, thats a lot different then a cell phone, people don't/can't ramble on over those.

------------------
When my flying days are over, and my death has come to pass
I hope they bury me upside down, so the whole damn world can kiss my ass

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sithiee:
youd be suprised how some people will be so involved in their conversation that they wont notice the accident ahead

---

That was my point. What's the difference between talking on a hands-free phone and talking to someone else in the car. I'm not going to re-hash me previous post over this. I personally know people who have a difficult time driving and carrying on a conversation with passengers! That doesn't involve a cell phone, and that was the point I was trying to make.

BTW, quote your sources and context when you say "statistically proven". Numbers can be manipulated to mean anything you like.

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A good programmer is someone who looks both ways on a one-way street

quote:

---

Fairclough, Ashby, Ross, and Parkes found that the highest workload, measured using NASA-TLX, existed when conversing on a car phone and when conversing with a passenger. Mental demand, mental effort, and frustration were higher under both of these conditions. Furthermore, drivers took 5\% more time to complete the experimental route under these conditions. In this experiment, an on-road-instrumented vehicle was used. While no noticeable difference in driving time or mental workload was seen between the conversation on a cell-phone condition and conversation with a passenger condition, the heart rate of subjects was found to be significantly higher during the cell phone conversation than in either the control (no conversation) or passenger conversation conditions. This may be evidence of the cell phone conversation imposing a higher level of stress on the individuals resulting in a physiological effect.

---

*Emphasis added by me

That information is quoted from < here >. Not conclusive, but it is suggestive that there may be something to Sithiee's claim.

Futher data of interest gleaned from another study that can be found < here >. Some points I found to be of interest:

quote:

---

• Using a mobile phone while driving is associated with an approximately four-fold increase in risk compared with not using the phone; this is similar to the risk of driving with a blood alcohol level at the legal limit.
  
• Hand free phones are no safer than hand-held phones.
  
• High speed crashes are more likely than low speed crashes.
  
• Drivers reported to be using a phone at the time of collision had a nine-fold risk of a fatality over those without a phone.
  
• Talking for more than fifty minutes per month resulted in a 5.58 fold increased risk of having a crash, higher than any other in car activity
  

---

Draw your own conclusions.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sithiee:

youd be suprised how some people will be so involved in their conversation that they wont notice the accident ahead

---

i wouldn't. in the accident i mentioned in my last post, the cell-phone conversing moron who hit the car i was in never even disconnected her call. not when she saw that there was going to be an accident (police reports indicate that she never attempted to slow down or stop), not after she hit my car, and not even by the time the ambulances, police and fire crews arrived.

she was still sitting in her car, talking on her phone.

i don't have any handy statistics to quote to you, or to allude to... but how's that for actual, real life observation?

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kuru
'if your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd kill you in your sleep.' -frank zappa

Kuru, I understand that it is serious when it conserns you, and I've never been in your situation. But think how much business is accomplished day by day on the road. And how many people have actually died from an accident where the SOLE reason they were hit or hit somebody was because of the use of a cell phone. You gotta weigh the sides and see that phones are more important.

Some people run companies on their own. They have to drive around cities and they have to talk to people while they are doing it. They dont have time to just pull over and stop. Its called multi-tasking, and most are capable of it without any trouble. The ones that aren't are special cases. They shouldn't even have a drivers license if they aren't capable of talking and driving at the same time.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sniper3k:
You mother fuckers are crazy. You are saying that listening to somebodys voice on the cell phone distracts you from the road and causes accidents? Well lets just strip every car on the road of their stereos also. We gotta soundproof all the doors and windows too, because maybe somebody is yelling outside, that will cause your accident too.

Kuru, I understand that it is serious when it conserns you, and I've never been in your situation. But think how much business is accomplished day by day on the road. And how many people have actually died from an accident where the SOLE reason they were hit or hit somebody was because of the use of a cell phone. You gotta weigh the sides and see that phones are more important.

Some people run companies on their own. They have to drive around cities and they have to talk to people while they are doing it. They dont have time to just pull over and stop. Its called multi-tasking, and most are capable of it without any trouble. The ones that aren't are special cases. They shouldn't even have a drivers license if they aren't capable of talking and driving at the same time.

---

You're outa your fucking mind if you think that its the same thing to drive while listening to a stereo as it is to drive while holding a phone to your ear and carrying on a conversation.

The point is, while you are driving, you need to keep your attention on the road and what is going on around you. If you divide your attention between two or three tasks, such as talking on the phone and driving, you are paying less attention to the task of driving than you should be.

And it's the people who think that they are capable of multitasking like that who are the most dangerous on the road. When you are driving you need to keep your full attention on the road around you, because the other people who are driving don't always do so.

Having a stereo going in the car does not significantly take your attention off of driving, unless it is too loud (and many people do have their stereos too loud): if it does you should turn it off.

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A good programmer is someone who looks both ways on a one-way street

i don't think my life was worth whatever business she was doing on her phone. it comes down that. i'm one person who almost died because someone else wanted to make a buck. if it was you in my shoes, you might understand why i think ONE death is too many to trade for someone else bein able to get to work an hour late or leave an hour early.

other than that, i don't think it's safe to "multi-task" in the car. it's too unstable and unpredictable a circumstance. multi-task while watchin tv if you must, but please, not while driving.

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kuru
'if your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd kill you in your sleep.' -frank zappa

people who talk on cell phones are STUPID. they can easily not talk on the cell phone, and not be distracted. talking on the cell phone for 3 hours or 1 minute doesnt make a difference. if for that one minute they dont pay attention, and kill someone cause they were having a nice chuckle with their friend on the phone, does that make it ok? i mean, jeez, they werent talking for 2 hours, but someone still died. the reason she didnt stop, is because she was paying attention to the conversation, and might not even have thought about the car in front of her. its a diversion of attention, and with the lack of brain power most of these people have, its a bad idea to stress it in the first place (methinks you fall in this group sniper.)

stop trying, there is no good argument for driving while talking on a cell, unless it involves saving someones life, and even then you can probably pull over, so dont try and argue that there is a good reason.

------------------
A good programmer is someone who looks both ways on a one-way street

quote:

---

Originally posted by Observer:
Uh, hate to interject again, but if you're referring to kuru's story, [b]nobody died. But the danger was definitely there. Resume normal transmissions...

[/B]

---

you see this shit. you see what i just did. i used the quote thing to reply to someone right fucking above me. i've seen people do it too damn long. STOP IT.

and um, this woman who hit the car i had the unfortunate luck of being in the back seat of when she plowed it was like 35 or 40 years old....she'd been driving for around 20 years.... if she wasn't payin enuf attention to see a car stopped a quarter mile in front of her and she hit it, i question whether it was just a matter of the cell phone. though the phone sure didn't make her more aware of the road.

ok, um, i think i'm done reliving my near death experiences for the night.

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kuru
'if your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd kill you in your sleep.' -frank zappa

i don't mess around in a car. i'm not the only one who is gonna die if i fuck up! and i don't think i could live with killing another person (i even try to miss animals unless there are cars in front/behind me)

it all comes down to YOU. the cell phone may have somehting to do with it but it was still you who fucked up, the cell phone wasn't driving the car (unless i overlooked some new technology)

Just drive safe! damnit!!

no, seriously, i think she was just a total chode.... for having a damn phone conversation when her attention belonged on the highway. that's what the judge thought too, and why she got a wreckless driving citation and a whole pile of other crap... because while you're driving isn't the proper time to make phone calls.

i don't care how skillful you are, you NEED all of your attention to be focused on the road while driving... and being on a phone detracts from that. so either hang up or pull over and stop being wreckless with other people's lives.

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kuru
'if your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd kill you in your sleep.' -frank zappa

However, the priviledge of driving is definately a special case. Since everyone shares the road with everyone else, the consequences of your actions not only affect you, but the lives of _everyone_ else around you. If you're not completely paying attention to the road, playing defensive driver and looking out for others, your NOT driving as safe as you could be, and you're unnecissarily endangering the well-being of those around you. This is not cool.

I would think we ALL agree that women driving on the freeway putting on makeup in the morning is unsafe. right? Stupid-ass business men driving on the freeway, reading the newspaper and drinking steaming hot coffee (may it scorch their privates to disfunctionality!) is unsafe, right?

(if you disagree here, say so)

Okay, the reason that these activities are unsafe and inconsiderate is that they take up valuable attention that should ideally be on the road, traffic, other drivers, weather conditions, etc. All the things that make up good driving.

In the light that cell phones take up valuable (and in some cases- deficient) attention, they are essentially the same thing as driving while reading or putting on makeup.

(if you disagree that cell phones take up attention, say sometihing)

Okay. there we have it.
I dont want you drving below your full capacity and endangering MY LIFE because you had to use your cell phone, and Betty-Sue couldn't wait to know that little Johnny lost his first tooth. please!!

my $.02

------------------
aventari
"A witty saying proves nothing." --Voltaire

------------------
Whats the point?

it's a distraction, and it's dangerous. it puts lives at risk for no good reason. convenience doesn't outweigh safety... especially not when it's my life that someone else is risking to conduct business deals on the freeway.

------------------
kuru
'if your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd kill you in your sleep.' -frank zappa

Oh, and if you weren't replying to kuru, sorry. You didn't specify who was the dumbass.

I guess I just really hate it when people don't see things my way.

I've never even been in a situation where I may have even got CLOSE to being in a wreck because of my cell phone. However, I've almost caused a few accidents because of have a drink from taco bell or something in the car. Why don't we just strip cars down to nothing. No radio... Just one seat... You know what? Fuck cars... It'd be much safer if all you uncordinated people would just take some form of mass transportation.

I mean let's get real people. We are talking about talking on the phone!!!!!!! It's no different than if you were talking to the person sitting next to you. Give me a break.

------------------
jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

I'm glad that you are very skilled and can drive and hold a conversation on a cell phone. Now, not everyone in this country can do that. In fact, most can't. These are the ones that shouldn't be able to drive will with cell phones. But until we can devise a test that can weed these people out with a +99\% acuracy rate, we need to take the cell phones out of EVERYONES hands. You don't like it, tough! I don't want to die because you want to talk on a phone!

i'm sure that up until the point where her car impacted with ours, she never thought that driving while talking on her cell phone was that dangerous.

------------------
kuru
'if your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd kill you in your sleep.' -frank zappa

i am not advocating that mobile phones should be used by everyone driving, but it is just another thing that distracts you from driving. for those who arent distracted (like jim) its okay, but most people cant do it (like statistics) so should there be an exception for people like jim, not really.

I am not condemning it, simply because I have done it.

regards, reman

------------------
People ask me to fix their computer. I do in 5 seconds.
They say "You think your good don't you".
I say "I know I'm good". People always ask stupid questions.

On the subject though. I use my cell phone in the car. Doesn't bother/effect me in the least.

Matter of fact, I talk on my phone, smoke a cigarette, drive, and I still don't spill the beer between my legs!!!

I RULE!

------------------
jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

quote:

---

Originally posted by kuru:
i'm sure that up until the point where her car impacted with ours, she never thought that driving while talking on her cell phone was that dangerous.

---

I thought I already explained this. It had nothing to do with the fact that she was talking on a cell phone. It was the fact that she was a SHE!

Yes, I will rant on female drivers!!! I've been in 5 accidents in my life. All were 'caused' by a female driver. 2 were considered my fault, but the fact of the matter is it was really caused by the fool in front of me slamming on her brakes instead of merging with traffic.

Ok, let me explain, cause I know you people are going to start waving flags everywhere!!

Here we are, on the service road, cruising along at about 45 getting ready to merge. I look over my left shoulder to make sure it's clear. *SMACK* Chick in front of me decides to come to a complete stop instead of merging with traffic. This has happened twice. The rest of my accidents where damn females rear ending me.

So I guess women just shouldn't be allowed to drive. Cause occording to MY studies, they aren't safe behind the wheel. And I don't think we should make exceptions for the few woman who can drive.

------------------
jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

------------------
A good programmer is someone who looks both ways on a one-way street

In every day seeing hundreds of commute traffic, I have noticed only three generalizations that can be made about drivers. None of them have to do with the gender of the person in the drivers seat.

a.) younger drivers, who are inexperienced are usually not the best drivers.

b.) people who drive sports cars and low lying fast cars, beefed up pickups and SUV's, as well as people who drive cars over 10 years old tend to be worse drivers than people driving small/midsize and family cars, or people driving minivans.

c.) many people who are over 50 or 60 are not good drivers, they may think they are, but some of them losing some of their abilities due to age, and don't realize it. This makes for dangerous drivers.

I'm not saying that all the people in those categories are bad drivers, and all the people not in those categories are good drivers, but higher percentages of people in those categories do stupid things on the road, and lower percentages of people not in those categories do stupid things on the road. It is also possible that the relative mix of drivers varies around the country.

------------------
Just your generic meaningless signature. Mix with 2 quarts water and stir till evenly coated.

I've never met someone whose periferal vision expands 360 degrees...

You rule!!

------------------
jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hellraiser:
far more bad drivers among the 16-28 year age who are males than females

---

sounds like an insurance company.

male drivers = show offs
female drivers = just don't pay attention
(this also sounds like an insurance company:)

i have noticed that people in the car talking are worse than cell phones in a few ways (making hand gestures and such that the driver is watching instead of the road) but they also have to "check" (as someone said earlier) in that they too are watching the road (or should atleast half way) and women are worse than men in this way. they get to involved with the conversation and "forget" about the road.

we are all responsible, when we get behind the wheel, for our actions. WATCH THE DAMN ROAD!!! thats all you can do. thats what needs to be done, don't call someone and discuss the theory of evalution while your driving, but a short and to the point talk on the cell is alright (calling to see if dinner is done/need anything picked up from the store/are you naked?), if you don't let it distract you form the road!!!!!!!

i do think they give out licences a bit to easy. make everyone take drivers ed, and don't let the pass until they score a 90 or better! i took drivers ed (although i already had my licence(needed another credit in hs)) i had to sit through 6 weeks of that shit before i even got to drive a damn car. basiclly what it says is: pay attention to the road, use comon sense, pay attention to the road!

you've obviously never heard of the concept of taking your turn and you're completely unfamiliar with the term 'yeild.' service roads and highway on ramps are built so that each car in a line on the ramp merges into traffic when that car is the front car on the ramp. i've seen a huge number of accidents caused by some impatient idiot who thinks that it's a good idea to cut out onto the highway from three or four cars back on the ramp, cutting off the person who was in the front of the line and trying to merge.

you brag about the fact that you have horrible driving habits, that you've been in five accidents, at least two of which were found to be your fault, that you talk on your cell phone while you drive and that you're often paying more attention to your taco bell drink than the road....and you want to say women drivers are bad?

heh, most of the reason insurance rates are higher for men than women is that men are a bigger risk on the highway. more likely to speed, show of, tailgate, drive offensively, and not wear their seat belts. then when they do get into an accident, they refuse to take responsibility for it and instead blame any female in the area.

there are bad drivers of both sexes and in all age groups, so i seriously doubt that just 'not giving drivers licenses to chicks' will solve anything, jim.

oh and if rear end accidents really are caused by the 'fool in front of you slamming on their brakes' then i guess that means 3 times you were at fault of being that fool?

------------------
kuru
'if your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd kill you in your sleep.' -frank zappa

This message has been edited by kuru on September 29, 2000 at 09:18 AM

This message has been edited by Greasemonk on September 29, 2000 at 10:06 AM

If you stop at a yield sign, you are making it nearly impossible to merge with traffic because of the time it takes you to reach freeway speeds from a dead stop. Which often CAUSES you to cut someone off during your merge.

Also, I don't slam on my brakes. The other times I was hit, I was at a dead stop and had been that way for several seconds before being smashed into.

Like I said in my previous posts. I think we just need to make cars only have one seat, and nothing buy a place for your ass, gas/brake pedal (no more standard transmissions), a steering wheel and NOTHING ELSE.

That way the 'good' drivers on this site will have nothing more to BITCH ABOUT!

------------------
jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

quote:

---

Originally posted by kuru:
jim, i'm really glad you live nowhere near me.

---

I'm equally glad I live nowhere near you.

Yes, I'm about to attack YOU! Even though this seems to piss you off, but since you are attacking ME.... Well, I guess it's just fair.

Because it's people like YOU and your uptightedness about absolutely EVERYTHING, that has forced laws, and regulations down peoples throats where the government has no business being.

You should see what whiney ass people like YOU have done to this countries Military Boot Camps.

YOU are one of those people that will NEVER be happy unless you have something to bitch about. This has been proven time and time again through-out the DetNet forums.

You or anyone else has no business telling me what I can or can't, should or shouldn't be doing while inside my car.

Becuase I'm sure that you drive with both hands on the wheel and use your turn signal evertime your steering wheel moves 2 inches in either direction, and don't play your radio loud.

You really need to wake up!!!</kuru rant>

------------------
jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

if it's SAFE and there's room, you merge into traffic. if there isn't room, you don't gun it, come off the ramp at 80 and cut in 3 inches in front of someone. you stop and wait your frigging turn.

of course, people like me are always the problem. but then again, i'm a woman. what the hell am i thinking even having a driver's license? i should probably just drop out of college, quit my job, give up my credit cards, get rid of my apartment, get married and let a guy take care of everything for me, since of course, my femaleness makes me totally incapable of doing anything on my own.

while you're at it, why don't you start blaming car accidents on people who actually stop at red lights, don't pass in no-passing areas, don't drive drunk and refuse to travel at double the legal speed limit?

yeah, so i wear my seat belt, i don't turn the radio up so loud that i can't hear anything else, i use turn signals when i change lanes on the freeway. oh no, shoot me now, i'm such an evil person !

pop a valium or somethin, yer going to have a coronary. not everyone drives like an impatient irate maniac... thank god.

just guessing, but you have a type a personality, right?

------------------
kuru
'if your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd kill you in your sleep.' -frank zappa

quote:

---

Originally posted by jim:

You or anyone else has no business telling me what I can or can't, should or shouldn't be doing while inside my car.

Becuase I'm sure that you drive with both hands on the wheel and use your turn signal evertime your steering wheel moves 2 inches in either direction, and don't play your radio loud.

---

I had a nice reply to this that enumerated my main points, that was well written and concise, and should've been nominated for a Pulitzer prize. but it has been lost in the nether-void of UBB errors.. ah well, i'll try again

Basically I said - jim, we sure as hell DO have a right to tell you what to do when you're in your car. And that is to DRIVE.

Don't read the newspaper, don't put on makeup, don't beat your children in the back seat, don't have wild sex, etc because your being inconsiderate and rude to the people sharing the road with you. Not to mention endangering innocent lives..

I'm a card carrying member of the Libertarian party, which means I want government out of EVERYthing it does not belong in. But our freeway system needs to be regulated, like it or not. Mad Max is a cool-ass movie, but it would sure suck if we had to live it everyday driving to work

My whole point is that driving and talking on the cell phone is more dangerous than driving and NOT talking on a cell phone. period. If people are going to continue to endanger innocent lives by doing this, then a law must be enacted to stop those people.

I support this for the same reason I support the non-smoking laws here in California. Do whatever the hell you want in your own house , I could give a fuck! But just don't endanger me with your actions.

thank you drive through

[i hope *this* post works!]

BTW jim, i had a lot more respect for you before your repeatedly ignorant and childish posts on this thread. i.e. personal attacks, and the whole women drivers should be banned thing. give me a break! you MUST'VE been in the military. I swear they brainwash dudes with this kind of absolute garbage there..

------------------
aventari
"A witty saying proves nothing." --Voltaire

And that whole women drivers thing: you need to think about what you say before you blurt it out. There is such a thing as bigotted ignorance and sexism, and you definitely were somewhere in that category with your statements. Research shows that environment, personality and experience plays a far greater role in whether or not a person is good at a particular task than gender. Personally, I'd take the 50\% of women who are good drivers in the area I live, over you or the 75\% of men who are bad drivers in the area I live, any day. And no, those numbers are not inflated, but based on observations of traffic during the 500+ hours I've spent riding my bicycle to work and back.

And yes, I can see 360 degrees around me. :P But even if I couldn't, that has little bearing on my perceptions of the world; what I can't see behind me, I can hear enough to know when they will pass me, and if they aren't going to pass me or keep up with me behind me, I don't need to worry about them.

You do not have the right to do whatever you fucking please in your car. You don't have the right to do whatever you fucking please anywhere. Well you do, but if you do certain things, the state/government has the right to fine you or to slap your ass in jail (or both), or in some cases, on the electric chair. There's a reason for traffic regulations: drivers who do things that are finable or imprisonable offenses put the rest of us on the road at risk. Believe you me, handling a car improperly can be just as fatal to an innocent bystander as handling a gun improperly; sometimes worse. There are far fewer accidental shootings in the US each year than there are deaths due to car accidents. Look up the statistics for yourself.

------------------
Just your generic meaningless signature. Mix with 2 quarts water and stir till evenly coated.

im fairly libertarian, and the government should leave victimless crimes alone, but big bad jim with his cell phone and his male chauvanist attitude and his automatic transmission should be completely wiped out by the gov. first off, there are statistics point out that driving while talking on a cell is the equivelant of driving while officially drunk. second, jim, youre dumb. third, jim, youre dumb. fourth, naturally, JIM, YOU ARE DUMB! fifth, no, not jim again, but rather when you drive on the road, theres a cool thing you should have learned in driving school (i know youre a fan, jim) where your sposed to stay at least 4 seconds behind someone. so yes, if you were the 4 seconds behind teh woman, and you didnt take more than half a second to check behind you, you could have stopped in time. 6th, manual transmissions dont take to long to get to highway speeds, so you can stop if you really want to, not to mantion they keep you far more alert, and usually off the phone.

but hey, jims just a dumb redneck with his cell phone and a holier than thou attitude.

------------------
jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

This message has been edited by jim on September 29, 2000 at 12:38 PM

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A good programmer is someone who looks both ways on a one-way street

quote:

---

My whole point is that driving and talking on the cell phone is more dangerous than driving and NOT talking on a cell phone. period. If people are going to continue to endanger innocent lives by doing this, then a law must be enacted to stop those people.

---

So should I start making a list of ALL the things that would be safer if taken out of a car? We'll just do away with them all? Why are we just picking on cell phones? Besides the thread topic.

It's not like, I get on the phone and all the sudden I'm a super threat to society!! The convience faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar out ways the risk, if ANY!

I honestly think that at least half the people on this board are full of shit!

I'm guessing in specifically THIS THREAD, the jack asses I'm argueing with either.

• Don't have a cell phone.
  
• Don't have a car.
  
• Don't even have a fucking license!
  
• Don't have a job that requires them to take important phone calls.
  
• OOooooor, are flat out mother fucking liars!!
  

Cause this is bullshit! You know that if you are cruisin on down the freeway, your phone rings. You have important calls set to that special VIP ring. You pick the damn thing up and find out what's up! This is what you bought a damn phone for!

Ugh!

Ok whatever. I'm done on this topic.

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

And i've seen people on cell phones doing some of the most risky stuff on the road, just short of what i've seen drunk people do. My first experience with someone driving on a cell phone was that the guy ahead of me was talking along, driving his SUV about 10 car lengths in front of me at like 45mph. Then as he gets more into his conversation, he started drifting over to the right, and kept drifting until he runs up on the median! Somehow he was able to control it and not flip over, I'm sure he got quit a scare, but then I pass him, and he's STILL ON HIS CELL PHONE!

What I'm saying is that when a behavior is this risky to everyone else, and people still do it all the time, something must be done. I can't think of any activities widely done by people in cars thats more risky than cell phones that aren't illegal yet.

and jim, did you know that listening to headphones in a car is illegal? aren't you outraged? Just think about the reasons WHY.

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aventari
"A witty saying proves nothing." --Voltaire

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A good programmer is someone who looks both ways on a one-way street

Yes, I have done some stupid shit; like eating or changing a CD, but at least that only takes a few seconds of my time and I don’t do it very often. Talking on the cell phone takes a long time and a lot of your concentration (especially if you are a TYPICAL female and that phone call is more important to you then breathing (please don’t hurt me Kuru ))

Jim, if you have been in five wrecks then you certainly don’t need to be talking on the cell phone; that is more accidents then you should have been in. BTW, I have only been in one accident and that was when some STONED asshole in a truck ran over my economy car. I will take a cell phone driver any day over a stoned/drunk driver.

However, I do have to agree with Jim on the merging thing; merging lanes are designed so that you can get going the speed of traffic, adjust you positioning, and merge without cutting anybody off. If you drive down the merging lane at 20 MPH/STOP in the merging lane, you can’t get going the speed of traffic and end up cutting someone off. These people piss me off. A lot.

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Presented in double vision when drunk.

jim, if all you can do is call people names and swear at them, then you have proven that you have nothing to contribute to this thread. You're opinion cannot be changed. So, on behave of everyone who does want to discuss this topic in a logical and mature manner, please refrain from sensless name calling and swearing.

Let's go through Sithee punk ass, pussy posts....

quote:

---

second, jim, youre dumb. third, jim, youre dumb. fourth, naturally, JIM, YOU ARE DUMB! fifth, no, not jim again,

but hey, jims just a dumb redneck with his cell phone and a holier than thou attitude.

[jim] being the redneck moron obviously dont.

---

Sithee's posts shows what a fucking idiot pussy that he is. Cause I fucking guarentee he say wouldn't say one bit of that to my face. He probably gets his little ass whipped everyday at school and his lunch money taken away and now he just mouths off on BB's so he can feel like a man.

Sithee, you are a little BITCH!

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

second, i dont say stupid things along the lines of "even though statistics and other peoples life experiences almost all prove otherwise, im still right about cell phones not affecting my driving, although ive had 5 accidents, 2 my fault" youre a moron. the redneck part comes from you and your homophobe stuff, but thats not a part of this thread, it just emphasized the moronic part.

i dont doubt you would say the things you do on this thread to my face, and i dont doubt you would take a swing at me for the things i would say to you. the fact remains however, you would not beat me up for the aformentioned reason, and the fact that i have mad running skills.

You are so fucking lucky this is a message board. I swear to GOD if I ever saw you I'd fucking beat your ass senseless.

Call me a fucking redneck.

You stupid fucking cock sucking faggot!

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

For the last time: take the moral high road and leave the thread if you don't like what the people are talking about or are saying about you. This thread was great until a few posts ago. And don't take things to personally.

quote:

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For the last time: take the moral high road and leave the thread if you don't like what the people are talking about or are saying about you.

---

quote:

---

[jim] may be a moron redneck, but...

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Fuck you too!

You want to talk about the topic, FINE! You have something to say about me personally, get your ass on a plane and come say it to me.

But sitting behind your computer and making comments about me personally is bullshit.

Cause you know as well as I do, that in person, nobody with a pair of nuts would stand for that shit!! Whether it be you saying that to me, or me saying that to you. Plain and simple.

quote:

---

This thread was great until a few posts ago. And don't take things to personally.

---

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

This message has been edited by jim on October 02, 2000 at 09:08 AM

As for you, Sithie, that whole business about "I beat up five guys and only got beaten once" is something I haven't heard since junior high school. Do you really think anyone cares how good you are in a fight? This is supposed to be a forum for intelligent discussion (or at least reasonably well-informed rants), not playground-style arguments.

As for the actualy topic for this forum, it is my opinion that if you're driving, you should concentrate completely on the road: no conversations, no radio, no fuzzy dice swinging around in front of your face, nothing. Driving is, as has been noted here, a much larger cause of death than handguns. You would probably be very careful if handling a loaded gun; shouldn't you be even more careful when driving?

For crying out loud people...

No radio, no phone, no nothing... give me a break.

Do you open doors with a napkin?? You could get germs you know.

Why is it, that people won't use the cell phone in a car, but will stick there dicks between any ole pair of legs?

It's NOT that big of a deal?

BEGIN EDIT

quote:

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jim: Reading your posts, I find it hard to believe that you're even old enough to have a drivers license.

---

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

This message has been edited by jim on October 02, 2000 at 03:45 PM

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Just your generic meaningless signature. Mix with 2 quarts water and stir till evenly coated.

i dont care how childish it may be, its even more childish to get into other peoples fights and then start insulting them.

i don't talk on the phone though, because it's too frigging awkward to wedge the phone between the shoulder and an ear and have use of both hands, or to do what i need to with the gun with only one hand.

i had no point here, i just felt like talking.

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kuru
'if your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd kill you in your sleep.' -frank zappa

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People ask me to fix their computer. I do in 5 seconds.
They say "You think your good don't you".
I say "I know I'm good". People always ask stupid questions.

I was wondering when someone was going to chime in on my side!!!

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

The idea of banning all female drivers for instance was sexist and offensive, and the idea that he is a great driver despite frequent accidents and using a cell phone while driving is a bit absurd. The very fact that there are bad drivers out there is partly why you shouldn't use a cell phone on the road. You need to keep your full attention on what is going on around you, this means you shouldn't be eating, reading, talking on a cell phone, holding a rearview mirror conversation with someone in the back seat, applying makeup, or any activity that requires part of your attention for more than half a second. If you are talking with other people in the car, it is much different than holding a phone to your ear, and takes much less of your attention. All these things are very true.

It's fine to listen to music while you drive, as long as it isn't loud enough to drown out the sounds of traffic around you, or the sirens of the cop pulling you over, and it's extremely impolite (not to mention distracting to both you and those around you) to drive around with your subwoofer maxed out so that people half a mile away have to listen to your music. Besides, it's not good for your ears. I'm not saying that you do that jim, just that a lot of people do it these days, and it's not particularly safe or pleasant.

Some of what I have stated here is opinion, and some is demonstrable fact. The fact that you chose to ignore some facts that were presented to you also shows that your mind is closed to anything that encroaches on the comfort zone of your beloved opinions. This also demonstrates a lack of maturity on your part.

If you need to have a phone in your car for your job, get a damn hands free unit, with speakers, not an earpiece, and pay more attention to the road than the conversation. If that means cutting the conversation short to stay alert in rush hour traffic, better that than someone get injured or killed due to your not doing your part to operate your vehicle safely.

If you find any of what I said insulting perhaps you should think twice before insulting someone else the way you have repeatedly throughout this thread. I also could care less what you think of this post, if you chose to be an ass and try to bite back, feel free to go fuck yourself.

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Just your generic meaningless signature. Mix with 2 quarts water and stir till evenly coated.

I could really give a rats ass what you think Hellraiser.

Cause people who sit there and try to pass themselves off as perfect, are dumb fucks... In my opinion!

"It's ok to listen to the radio. (Cause that's what I do) But's don't do the shit that I don't do, cause it's not right!!!"

Whatever.

Read about my accidents again. 2 'my' fault.

1991 - One I re-ended someone because she didn't know how to merge onto a freeway.

1995 - Second time, same scenario, only the person in front of me smacked her causing me to smack him.

All in 1999 - The rest were me getting smacked, all taking place within a 3 month period.

One at was at a stop light, minding my own business.

The other I was turning off of a main street and someone didn't slow down while I turned the corner.

The other, I don't completely blame the person. There was an accident over the top of a hill, and the idiots involved didn't pull to the side of the road, so I had to swerve off the road. I did, and stopped, and then the next car coming over the hill, swerved as well and hit me....

Also, no cell phones were involved in ANY of these accidents... So there goes your whole arguement....

And if you are going to call someone immature, you need to demonstrate some yourself....

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

It also may suit you well, to go back and read this thread from post one to this post, and see just how things progressed.

Pay peticular attension to MY posts, and replies directed towards me.

So who started calling who what....

All I did was defend myself, and MY opinion.

So fuck you!

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

But anyone from Dallas will tell you there is no such thing as the 4 second rule here. Never has been.

If I were to follow 4 seconds, even 3 behind someone I'd NEVER get to work.

It already takes me over an hour to go 20 miles, driving aggressively.

Just because I wasn't driving defensively, doesn't mean that I'm a bad driver. I'm fully capable of operating a motor vehicle. And do everything with in reason to be safe.

It can really go either way. If I had put a city block between me and lady (that is 4 seconds at 45-55 miles an hour) between me and her, would their have been a wreck? Probably not.

If she had simply merged into traffic rather than slamming on her brakes, would there have been an accident?
Probably not.

Me being behind her, can very easily see the open spot that should could have slid into. I then look over my shoulder, to spot the next car in traffic, knowing that I will fall in behind him.

But the lady just didn't merge.... She came to a dead stop on a freeway entrance ramp. For all I know she was talking on her cell phone and forgot to look over her left shoulder, so she just slammed on her brakes...

I could have avoided the accident! Yes, no doubt in my mind... But it wasn't odd for me to make the assumption that I did.

You know what else? Why would you drop from 55 to a complete stop in the time it takes me to glance over my shoulder anyway???

In all these instances I'm taking about the lady I hit. Not the time the guy in front of me got in an accident. I was looking forward when that happened... And I was following close to that guy, and he was following close to the lady, and I'm sure he assumed the same as I would that she'd just merge into freeway traffic.

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

quote:

---

Originally posted by jim:
Was I driving defensively... Probably not.

---

I guess you really just need to drive in Dallas to understand this. WHERE THE FUCK ARE YOU RENAGADESNARK!

Like in the instance where I hit the guy who hit the girl.

Had there been someone - ANYONE behind me, they would have hit me.

This is Texas Driving. Actually more specifically Dallas driving.

It'd bumper to bumper everywhere you go. When the light turns green you shit and get, or you are liable to get honked at or even worse shot!!

BUT, back to the subject. ZERO cell phones on anyones part were involved in any of the accidents we have been discussing.

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

quote:

---

Originally posted by jim:
I could really give a rats ass what you think Hellraiser.

Cause people who sit there and try to pass themselves off as perfect, are dumb fucks... In my opinion!

---

i dont see where Hellraiser said he was perfect. and you obviously DO care what he thinks or you wouldn't be reading and replying to his post.. heh

quote:

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[lots of accident stuff here]

Also, no cell phones were involved in ANY of these accidents... So there goes your whole arguement....

And if you are going to call someone immature, you need to demonstrate some yourself....

[/B]

---

Dude, that's totally specious reasoning.. just because no cell phones we involved in you accidents (wich to me looked like they happened before this recent emergence of cells in everybodies hands anyway), this is way too small a sample to even begin to debunk our theory.

..on a side note, I think his post was one of the more mature i've seen on the board

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aventari
"A witty saying proves nothing." --Voltaire

Furthermore, I wouldn't especially like to have a cellphone for the simple reason that I wouldn't want people from work to be calling me at all hours of the day and night. Whatever happened to the idea that when you leave work in the evening, you're free to spend your time in some more relaxing fashion? Admittedly, some jobs may require you to be on call at all times, but for most vocations, when you're not at work you shouldn't have to be working. This isn't how it tends to happen in modern life, but in my opinion this is how jobs should be.

My situation with work after hours is in fact the on-call phone. I get it for 1 week every 3 months.

Believe me though, anytime that phone rings it's an emergency.

I host < www.travelocity.com, > and a few hundred other sites from Sabre, and AMR Corp... When the go down, big bucks are involved.

We also signed a deal with i2 Technologies. It's going to be an even bigger headache if their stuff goes down, since we will be a 3rd party hosting service. People get kinda pissed when THEY loose money because of YOU!

Ugh.....

I seriously know what you guys mean about attension on the road. I just don't see where the risk (which I don't agree exists) outways the convience.

There are times on the freeway, where I can set my cruise control and close my eyes for 10 seconds, and just KNOW I'm not going to be in a wreck. 99.9\% of the time on the road, nothing unusual is going on. I'd once maybe twice a year, I have to swerve or react to miss being involved an accident. I don't think if I was on the phone, I would have any more or less of a chance.

Now I don't agree with the people that get on the phone, and then bust out their briefcase and are making notes, and shuffling through paperwork, and reading while driving.

But for me, in my opinion, the simple act of holding a piece of plastic up to my ear, and speaking does not effect my ability to drive.

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

Because all the other punks out there like you driving aggressively. Aggression has no part in driving, and if you ^@$ were to stop changing lanes all the goddamn time the entire fucking freeway would speed up by quite a fucking bit!
Its all the bitches who MUST be first, who drive like they are in a fucking race, and change lanes 47 times per minute <exageration> that cause most traffic slowdowns. You ever thought that every time you change lanes, someone behind you has to brake. Then someone behind them says "oh shit they are braking, i better get over" etc, etc...see where this is going?
If all you fucks out there werent such self serving assholes, the whole fucking problem wouldnt exist!

God damn i hate you fudgepackers.

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Because email can be altered electronically, the integrity of this communication cannot be guaranteed.

I get on the freeway merge all the way to the right and stay there until I exit.

What I meant by aggressively is fast. I go as fast as I can in my lane, within reason. If the freeway was empty, I wouldn't be going top speed, but I do push about 80 on the freeway if nobody is around.

Now if I'm in the fast lane, and the guy in front of me is going 60, and there is a mile between him and the car in front of him, I will go around him.

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

quote:

---

Conclusions

We conclude that conversing on a cell phone is not an inherently dangerous task. However, we have found evidence that using a cell phone while driving places demands on attentional resources which, in certain circumstances, can be dangerous.

---

Also on a side note, what do people think of onboard Nav system computers and stuff. Those obviously take away much more attension than a cell phone, considering you actually have to LOOK at those!!!

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >