------------------
"I ated the purple berries...they tasted like burning"

This message has been edited by Chrissy on February 12, 2001 at 03:26 PM

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Hey DKB shu'p with all that jibba jabber ya crazy foo!

j/k

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Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot. The thing I hate most is that I didn't have a better idea.

Well my car is working again- my bf came to fix it (he was sick, I felt bad but I had no choice)I just dont want to have to keep calling someone to come and fix this thing- even if I can fix it- why should I. At this point in my life I dont have the time, patience or money for all this shit.

It just seems to me that cars are more trouble then they are worth and if I didnt need mine to get to and from work evey god damn day I would just scrap mine and use the money for new clothes. :P

Blah

------------------
"I ated the purple berries...they tasted like burning"

------------------
Hey DKB shu'p with all that jibba jabber ya crazy foo!

quote:

---

Originally posted by askheaves:
I bought an 88 Dodge Daytona (Daisy) while in college, and that was my first car.
....
The Moral. Learn how to fix a car. Even a computer geek can become a car geek too, if

---

Amen! A car is much more simple than programming in C or something, anyone can do it. I actually find it highly enjoyable. And if you take the time to learn how to fix cars and actually get dirty doing it, you won't be anally raped by mechanics anymore.

There's not much that measures up to the satistfaction of rebuilding a motor from scratch, modifying it the way _you_ want, installing it, and then driving around everyday, burning riced-out Hondas left and right :]

Hey askheaves, did you ever have a tranny problem w/ that Dodge? If not, it must've been a stick. The automatics in those are absolute garbage. Just check the 'For Sale' ads!

Chrissy, If i were you, i would sell the Hyundai ASAP. Those are some of the worst built cars ever. You could probably get 2500-3000 for it, and then buy an early or mid-90's Honda Civic.
Yes it's true that only lemmings and sheep drive Hondas, but those are some damn reliable cars.

------------------
"The secret of creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." -

quote:

---

Originally posted by aventari:
A car is much more simple than programming in C or something, anyone can do it.

Hey askheaves, did you ever have a tranny problem w/ that Dodge? If not, it must've been a stick.

---

The only caveat I have is that I don't want to touch the engine too much, if I can avoid it. It's like recompiling a kernel... something I don't enjoy too much, even though I have to do it at work.

And, yes. Daisy was a stick... a Polish stick. Reverse was up and to the left, but it had a manual lockout so you had to lift a ring with your fingers... like a weird European car. Also, the speedometer and tach were juxtaposed, the seatbelt came from the right, the window crank turned the opposite direction as normal cars, and it's a stick with a foot pedal parking brake, which sucked ass.

The other problem was that I backed it into a bridge abutment... slowly. Cracked the bumper, no big deal. And, by the end, the parking brake was locked, so the car couldn't drive easily. And, one of the boots seems to have gone out when my brother drove it into a curb while learning how to drive on snow. That car took a beating, but it got me through 2 years of school pretty cheaply. Plus, it was a hatchback... with the leuver! I would recommend one to anybody, as long as they get a 1990 or later.

My first car was a 1968 chevy impala. Back befor the days of computer controled motors and catylitic converters. Back when you could get LEADED gas (need to add that to my rant!). Back when you could open the hood and still figure out what bit was the motor.

My fav is still my 1973 fury. Started life as a police car. it did not have a stock motor. It had a MOTOR! 440 intercepter package back from the days when that ment something. 3950lbs of american steel that would cruse at 100mph and do 150+ (that is where the numbers on the speedometer stopped. the needle would go all the way to L2 on the shift indicator.)
Little punks in there camaros would want to race till i took the motor up to about 4grand and the exaust cut-outs opened. Sounded like gates of hell just opened and the party started
Fucknuggets would not even look my way after that.

Mmmmm...i miss my lead sleds.

Sorry, i rambled on for a bit but im back now. Its a wonderful thing when you can rip the heart out of a car and tear it down to the point where there is not one nut or bolt left and put every thing back together and light it off. Its almost better than sex, almost.
They make books for every car out there. These books give a step by step on how to do everything. Get the book, run the diags, and fix your own car. If you can do that you can do anything.
Just remember
grease does come out from under your nails sooner or later
You will bust your knuckels at least once.
that big craftsman screw driver makes a great prybar.
The spark from the spark plugs is over 60k volts. it will rock your world.
Motors are bolted in for a reason. sometimes they have to come out to change the bit your after. (82-4 camaro spark plugs come to mind.)

im done

------------------
WHOOPING ASS, although solidly criticized by politicians and overprotective mothers everywhere, is a good thing. If the cavemen had used their unique talents to foster a nurturing and non-competitive environment the planet would be run by leopards
< TeamWolfguard.com >

I bought an 88 Dodge Daytona (Daisy) while in college, and that was my first car. The only problem I had with it (besides it being a suck ass car) was the radiator, which I had replaced REALYY cheaply.

I own a 95 Lumina LS now. Already, i've had the alternator change, and I've changed the fuel pump myself. Plus, I found the electrical problem that was draining my car out of battery in 4 days if not turned on. It was a glove box bulb. I pulled that fucker out and threw it across the street.

Moral. Learn how to fix a car. Even a computer geek can become a car geek too, if given the proper conditions. I guarantee there is somebody who lives near you (especially in college) who can show you how to fix shit in your car. I can now change a water pump and a battery, can change my oil and coolent, and I'm an expert and jump starting. I learn one thing at a time, and when the next thing goes horribly wrong, I'll learn how to fix that too. I would say that a crappy car is a blessing, since it'll give you an appreciation for how crappily American cars seem to be made, and how easy it really is to fix one.

so i deal with that shit until the car died (before i paid it off), the company that sold me the car went under (some how they were missing a couple million in cars) so the court got my contract were i finished jpaying off the car, then they lost 迶 in payments.

and that is where it is at today, if they want me to pay on that car they can kiss my ass, i'm going to take it to the scrap yard and get 赨 out of it and be happy.

my car now is much better, 88 chrystler le baron GTS, 4 door, 2.5 4 cyl, paint is falling off of it, but it is an awsome car
mopar is my second choice to a ford (69 mach I mustang /me creams pants)

fuck your jap cars, everyone says they are good. just wait till you have to replace something on one and you read the price tag!

i hated that car every day of its life (0 to 60 in 3 hours? sure.) and then one day my mom wrecked it.

i got a 1988 mercury topaz. air conditioning, stereo/cassette, power windows locks and seats, a honey of a car, and it ran great.

and then some bitch on a cell phone rear ended it at 65 mph. toatled. hi-ho-silver was dead.

so with the insurance money, i ended up with a 1989 ford tempo. <bill hicks> piece of shit</bill hicks> from day one. it always stalled and had massive problems.

i sold it last year, and now i am carless again. oh well. once i graduate and get some job somewhere, i'll get another car.

------------------
kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost

quote:

---

Originally posted by kuru:
at least it was an automatic.

---

dont you mean "and to top it all off, it was an automatic."?

quote:

---

Originally posted by damage:
I had an 86 Honda Civic that I paid 񘓤 for at the time. Within 2 years it blew two cylinders and died.

---

Then either you didn't maintain it properly or you drove it like shit. the 84+ Civics have no inherent engine defect that would cause it to die for no reason.

And what's up with you people and your 2 ton gas-guzzling stone-age push-rod V-8's?? *cough* Wolfguard *cough* :]

I am building a 1.8 litre turbocharged 4 banger for my VW that will still get 25-30 MPG and outrun almost ANY street driven V-8 mobile. Ahhh technology
God I love German cars

------------------
"The secret of creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." -

quote:

---

Originally posted by aventari:
Yes it's true that only lemmings and sheep drive Hondas, but those are some damn reliable cars.

---

I had an 86 Honda Civic that I paid 񘓤 for at the time. Within 2 years it blew two cylinders and died.

Now, I've got an '84 Pontiac Bonneville that I paid 躔 for. It's got the same number of miles as the Honda did and this one is still going strong. Plus, it's alot easier to work on.

I learned how to fix car cause I was too poor to have someone fix them for me. I'm glad I did.

quote:

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Originally posted by Wolfguard:
It had a MOTOR! 440 intercepter package...

---

Hell yeah! I'm thinking about retro-fitting my 1950 Plymouth Sedan with the 440. Now THERE'S an engine. MOPAR or nocar!!!

------------------
damage@detonate.net

"On a long enough timeline the survival rate for anyone drops to zero."
-Narrator 'Fight Club.'

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dark Knight Bob:
yes but i mean how much do you spend on fuel for your 650hp fuel guzzlers. you couldprobably buy the car all over again with the amount they use

---

well yea, but gas was 90 cents a gallon then.

Car would pass anything but a gas station. Its fun to tromp down on the gas and watch the gas gage head toward empty...

------------------
WHOOPING ASS, although solidly criticized by politicians and overprotective mothers everywhere, is a good thing. If the cavemen had used their unique talents to foster a nurturing and non-competitive environment the planet would be run by leopards
< TeamWolfguard.com >

quote:

---

Originally posted by aventari:
And what's up with you people and your 2 ton gas-guzzling stone-age push-rod V-8's?? *cough* Wolfguard *cough* :]

I am building a 1.8 litre turbocharged 4 banger for my VW that will still get 25-30 MPG and outrun almost ANY street driven V-8 mobile. Ahhh technology
God I love German cars

---

1.8l engin. i have had cars with that in 1 cilinder...

define Street driven before i strapon the tanks and grab the lighter.

This i will give you. 4 bangers spin up and reach the power band faster. Even with that they just cant create the horse power of a V8.

Want to go scary fast? Supercharge a Chevy 400cid motor. Drop it into a vega There is more weight in the motor than the rest of the car. Ford Cobra had the same problem. 427 motor in a frame/body that was 800lbs.

------------------
WHOOPING ASS, although solidly criticized by politicians and overprotective mothers everywhere, is a good thing. If the cavemen had used their unique talents to foster a nurturing and non-competitive environment the planet would be run by leopards
< TeamWolfguard.com >

quote:

---

Originally posted by aventari:
Then either you didn't maintain it properly or you drove it like shit. the 84+ Civics have no inherent engine defect that would cause it to die for no reason.

---

Actually, I had connections at the Honda service center by me and it was maintained there.

I drove it like I do my Bonneville and that one's still going strong.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aventari:
And what's up with you people and your 2 ton gas-guzzling stone-age push-rod V-8's?? *cough* Wolfguard *cough* :]

I am building a 1.8 litre turbocharged 4 banger for my VW that will still get 25-30 MPG and outrun almost ANY street driven V-8 mobile.

---

I love classic cars. They were built to last and for comfort. There's a certain element of style in them. I just feel good when I'm driving mine.

As for the big V8 engine, I like 'em for 2 reasons. 1) When you're driving a monster size car you need a big engine to ensure you don't start rolling backwards when you drive uphill and 2) I LOVE the roar of a monster engine.

You may or may not be able to out run me but the 440 V8 will shake bolts lose in a VW as it passes by.

------------------
damage@detonate.net

"On a long enough timeline the survival rate for anyone drops to zero."
-Narrator 'Fight Club.'

quote:

---

Originally posted by damage:
You may or may not be able to out run me but the 440 V8 will shake bolts lose in a VW as it passes by.

---

If it has a super charger it may just suck in the entire vw and use it for fuel...

quote:

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Originally posted by jrh1406:
heh, i had a nice car once, an 88 caprice classic wagon, then i totaled it. Bought an 84 le-sabre, overheated the engine and warped the heads the first day i had it. So i bought an 89 chevy g20 van, It worked ok at first, just a couple of little problems with the coolant and the tranny, then the tranny dies on my way home to CT. I have it towed to a shop and find it'll cost me 1200 dollars to get the thing fixed, i'm stranded and out of options so i have it done. He puts in a piece of shit tranny that is now dying. mean while, i've replaced the water pump and i still have a coolant leak, first gear grinds if i hit the accelerator at all coming from a stop, and then second gear grinds when the car upshifts into it (this is on an automatic transmission), the windshield edging is coming off and i just had the windshield replaced. I figure i have three options right now, i can get another used transmission (only cost me 500 up here in rochester), i can replace the heads on the le-sabre, or i can swap the engine out of the van and drop it into the le-sabre and get a better tranny for the le-sabre when i have more money.

---

Fix the le sabre. Itll cost you less and sounds like a nicer car.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sithiee:
hmm. i still live with my parents, and i drive one of their cars. its a 2001 toyota corolla. now before you say "damn that sithiee!!! kill the bastard and take his car!!!" lets realize that "japanese quality" isnt. ever since weve had it, if i push the car to like 4k rpm, which i do a lot (hey, no one passes me and gets away with it, thats just not OK). it has a smell like rotten eggs, and sometimes a smell like burning rubber. and it really smells bad. then the valve for air intake from the engine, i cant keep it closed! ill close it, and like 10 minutes later, its opened itself again. makes me angry. and my car retains water. like on the inside. it will fog up inside my car, and sometimes i have a nice inside frost. well, i think thats all i can compe up with to bitch about, because its actually a really nice car, im just mad that a new car didnt come in perfect condition.

---

That egg smell is your belts getting hot and possibly your boiling some tranny fluid(Which is bad). Thats...um .....NOT GOOD for a car. It could also be a small leak in your head gasket. Does the engine get hot fast?

------------------
Chastity is curable, if detected early.
I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.
For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.

my mom has an 87 caprice classic brougham. i've got a friend who is into big, old cars. he saw it once and almost jizzed on it.

------------------
kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wolfguard:
ah cars. those wonderful freedom machines of youth...

My first car was a 1968 chevy impala. Back befor the days of computer controled motors and catylitic converters. Back when you could get LEADED gas (need to add that to my rant!). Back when you could open the hood and still figure out what bit was the motor.

My fav is still my 1973 fury. Started life as a police car. it did not have a stock motor. It had a MOTOR! 440 intercepter package back from the days when that ment something. 3950lbs of american steel that would cruse at 100mph and do 150+ (that is where the numbers on the speedometer stopped. the needle would go all the way to L2 on the shift indicator.)
Little punks in there camaros would want to race till i took the motor up to about 4grand and the exaust cut-outs opened. Sounded like gates of hell just opened and the party started
Fucknuggets would not even look my way after that.

Mmmmm...i miss my lead sleds.

Sorry, i rambled on for a bit but im back now. Its a wonderful thing when you can rip the heart out of a car and tear it down to the point where there is not one nut or bolt left and put every thing back together and light it off. Its almost better than sex, almost.
They make books for every car out there. These books give a step by step on how to do everything. Get the book, run the diags, and fix your own car. If you can do that you can do anything.
Just remember
grease does come out from under your nails sooner or later
You will bust your knuckels at least once.
that big craftsman screw driver makes a great prybar.
The spark from the spark plugs is over 60k volts. it will rock your world.
Motors are bolted in for a reason. sometimes they have to come out to change the bit your after. (82-4 camaro spark plugs come to mind.)

im done

---

Nice impala, but I would have to request a test of [{∆/horizontal travel}/sec]/sec if you still had it. The same goes for the fury. Was that a 440 cid? If it was a cop car it must have been a 4 on the floor auto.

------------------
Chastity is curable, if detected early.
I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.
For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.

This message has been edited by L33T_h4x0r_d00d on February 14, 2001 at 10:18 AM

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wolfguard:
Mmmmm...i miss my lead sleds.

---

My dream car is a 1951 Mercury Lead Sled. They don't make a garage long enough for that anymore. Get in a head on accident with that and you've got a good 2-3 minutes before the accident is even close enough to you for you to notice.

------------------
damage@detonate.net

"On a long enough timeline the survival rate for anyone drops to zero."
-Narrator 'Fight Club.'

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wolfguard:
If it has a super charger it may just suck in the entire vw and use it for fuel...

---

That'd be a quick way to deal with tail gators. Rev the engine a bit and *CRUNCH* in they go.

------------------
damage@detonate.net

"On a long enough timeline the survival rate for anyone drops to zero."
-Narrator 'Fight Club.'

quote:

---

Originally posted by L33T_h4x0r_d00d:
Nice impala, but I would have to request a test of [{∆/horizontal travel}/sec]/sec if you still had it. The same goes for the fury. Was that a 440 cid? If it was a cop car it must have been a 4 on the floor auto.

---

why do i need to test a change in direction in one of these cars? In something like this you dont go around things you go through them...

When i got the Fury it had a rock crusher(herst/hurst) trans in it. Looked like a hack job to get a trans in it that would not self distruct from the motor. That was fun to clean up. Had to get a new bell housing custom made so it looked right.

When i was done with it i had dual 650 cfm holly dubble pumpers feeding it (before the hood was redone i could suck it down to the air cleaner). had the RC trans and a rear out of a chevy. think it was a 318 posi(its been a while). That was a fucking nightmare to get in. Thank the maker for welding machines.

------------------
Fucknuggets flamed while you wait.< TeamWolfguard.com >

quote:

---

Originally posted by damage:
That'd be a quick way to deal with tail gators. Rev the engine a bit and *CRUNCH* in they go.

---

Only if you drive backwards...

Personaly, tailgaters are always behind me...

------------------
Fucknuggets flamed while you wait.< TeamWolfguard.com >

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wolfguard:
Only if you drive backwards...

Personaly, tailgaters are always behind me...

---

Okay, so slow down. Let them pass you...then *VROOM!!!*

------------------
damage@detonate.net

"On a long enough timeline the survival rate for anyone drops to zero."
-Narrator 'Fight Club.'

quote:

---

Originally posted by aventari:
Then either you didn't maintain it properly or you drove it like shit. the 84+ Civics have no inherent engine defect that would cause it to die for no reason.

And what's up with you people and your 2 ton gas-guzzling stone-age push-rod V-8's?? *cough* Wolfguard *cough* :]

I am building a 1.8 litre turbocharged 4 banger for my VW that will still get 25-30 MPG and outrun almost ANY street driven V-8 mobile. Ahhh technology
God I love German cars

---

Ill take that challenge any day.

------------------
Chastity is curable, if detected early.
I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.
For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wolfguard:
why do i need to test a change in direction in one of these cars? In something like this you dont go around things you go through them...

When i got the Fury it had a rock crusher(herst/hurst) trans in it. Looked like a hack job to get a trans in it that would not self distruct from the motor. That was fun to clean up. Had to get a new bell housing custom made so it looked right.

When i was done with it i had dual 650 cfm holly dubble pumpers feeding it (before the hood was redone i could suck it down to the air cleaner). had the RC trans and a rear out of a chevy. think it was a 318 posi(its been a while). That was a fucking nightmare to get in. Thank the maker for welding machines.

---

Ok ill spell it out. I wanted to race.

------------------
Chastity is curable, if detected early.
I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.
For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.

Bah! power is nothing without control

They dont just go bad on their own either, usually its a rich fuel/air mixture that will cause it to fail. I'd get it fixed soon, because if your cat is blocked and overheats, it can catch your car on fire.
Although thats an extreme case, it's happened to my friends 86 nova.

The rich mixture and/or a messed up cat will certainly cause you to get bad gas mileage. No fun at all

l33t hax0r/pengu1mm/anyone else, I'll race ya anyday. With or without my turbo. Just come down any Saturday to Carlsbad Drag Strip and you'll find me. It's not hard to see the 1 VW amongst 200 musclecars. Or we could autocross at Qualcomm Stadium on Sundays, I'm there too. Take your pick.

You people gotta realize that speed is all about yer power/weight ratio. a 1900 lb car w/ 200hp has a 9.5lbs/hp while your average overwieght musclecar (say 350hp) will have about 11.5lbs/hp. This is of course a gross oversimplification, but you get the picture.
Plus of course with that much less wieght, you'll handle better, brake better, be easier on gas, pollute less, etc etc

edit: didn't even see page 2!

This message has been edited by aventari on February 14, 2001 at 04:44 PM

quote:

---

Originally posted by pengu1nn:
Hyundai's are shit, big steaming piles of shit!!!!!

---

Well I have a Elentra 1992 still in good condition 146,000km/90,000mi. It still get me from point A to point B easily (but not quickly).

True, Hyundai cars built before 1995 were not the best on the reliability side, especially because of the Mitsubishi engine/trans.

When I bought my Elentra, my goal was something would get me wherever I had to be, and I'm still happy about this car.

The only big reperation I had to do since I have it is the 2nd gear clutch (auto trans) that was slipping, but i got it under warranty.

Now Hyundai cars are not so bad, have better equipment their american counterparts, and usually less expensive. Also the Accent received many awards in the last three years, and you can't say that the new Tiburon isn't stylish...

Sure, Hyundai don't make high-end cars, but they make great quality, cost-effective cars.

(no i'm not sold to Hyundai, but i keep them as an option when i'll buy a new car somewhere in the next two years)

------------------
#define QUESTION (2b)| |!(2b)

also, could that problem affect the gas mileage? i mean, i drag race it all the time, and i know that wastes a lot of gas, but i make up for it by coasting a lot, and yet the mileage is about 2/3 of what it is supposed to be...

edit: i meant to add the second paragraph

This message has been edited by Sithiee on February 14, 2001 at 12:13 PM

i would still take a 13 second stock mustang over your beefed up vw any day. their big, heavy and they have all the power needed to smoke vw/honda/whatever all day. endurance race could be a problem, but drag racing your gonna go down.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aventari:
You people gotta realize that speed is all about yer power/weight ratio. a 1900 lb car w/ 200hp has a 9.5lbs/hp while your average overwieght musclecar (say 350hp) will have about 11.5lbs/hp. This is of course a gross oversimplification, but you get the picture.
Plus of course with that much less wieght, you'll handle better, brake better, be easier on gas, pollute less, etc etc

---

And that is why speed is a matter of money.
every question of "how fast can i go?" is answered with "how much money you got?"

Um. in a straight line the heavy car does better. More down force on the tires. Yes the first law of motion gets you in the corners.

as for the rest. who uses breaks in a race. If you want to race but dont want to waste gas, go home.

------------------
Fucknuggets flamed while you wait.< TeamWolfguard.com >

quote:

---

Originally posted by pengu1nn:
my 2.5 4 cyl currently at @ 100 hp can have 400hp for about ū,000

---

Yea, for all of about a minute. Then the nox causes the pistons to self distruct.

------------------
Fucknuggets flamed while you wait.< TeamWolfguard.com >

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wolfguard:
If you want to race but dont want to waste gas, go home.

---

AMEN BROTHER

------------------
Chastity is curable, if detected early.
I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.
For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wolfguard:
Yea, for all of about a minute. Then the nox causes the pistons to self distruct.

---

Note to self.....its not good when top of piston and bottom of valve touch......

......also when the air fuel mixture is effectivly 60 to 1 you might wanna back off on the NOS cause your probably running your engine a little lean......14 to 1 should be good....

------------------
Chastity is curable, if detected early.
I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.
For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.

quote:

---

Originally posted by L33T_h4x0r_d00d:

Note to self.....its not good when top of piston and bottom of valve touch......

......also when the air fuel mixture is effectivly 60 to 1 you might wanna back off on the NOS cause your probably running your engine a little lean......14 to 1 should be good....

---

Used nox once. its a scary thing when you hit the nox at 140 and cherp the tires.

------------------
Fucknuggets flamed while you wait.< TeamWolfguard.com >

Gotta get me one of those.

I enjoy NASCAR. And I'm extra excited about this Sunday... Dodges!!! Finally! It's been so long. Now, got to get the Buicks back.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wolfguard:
Um. in a straight line the heavy car does better. More down force on the tires. Yes the first law of motion gets you in the corners.

---

Yes there is more downforce on the tires, however the mass of the car is resisting movement, which more than makes up for the extra weight on the tires. And that is much more of a deciding factor in a race--the inertia of the vehicle. Thats why racers (no matter what they drive) are constantly on a quest to lighten their car. The only reason a heavier car would ever do better is because of the much more powerful engine it's able to take.

quote:

---

as for the rest. who uses breaks in a race. If you want to race but dont want to waste gas, go home.

---

I certainly hope you use your brakes in a race!! Otherwise your precious muscle car wont last long ;]
Besides, I'm not really talking about an all out drag car that you trailer to the track. Hell I'f i was talking about that it would be a '67 Camaro w/ a 400 smallblock and a roots blower!

But I'm describing an everyday car that I drive to school and work everyday, can get good mpg, carry 4 people, and still blow away cars w/ engines 3-4 times it's size.

But thats not to say I haven't been looking in the newspaper for some '73 or earlier American iron to augment my fine German machine

------------------
"Here at Borger King, we do it our way. Your way is irrelevant."

quote:

---

Originally posted by aventari:
Yes there is more downforce on the tires, however the mass of the car is resisting movement, which more than makes up for the extra weight on the tires. And that is much more of a deciding factor in a race--the inertia of the vehicle. Thats why racers (no matter what they drive) are constantly on a quest to lighten their car. The only reason a heavier car would ever do better is because of the much more powerful engine it's able to take.

---

except that if you have lots of torque on the wheels, but not enough mass on the wheels to keep the friction force between the wheels and the ground greater than the force of torque, you have slippage. slippage is NOT good if you want to win a race. thusly, a heavier car keeps more weight on the wheels, which gives the wheels more friction, which, in turn makes all your torque more effective. you dont want a light ass car, you just want one thats heavy enough to grip the road, and light enough to not be too slow, but heavy cars arent bad. dont fuck with physics.

Why do you think motocycles are so damn quick with such small engines?? Same principle: power/weight ratio.

Just trust me here, you want as light a car as possible if you're going to do any performance driving. regardless.
THAT's physics.

------------------
"Here at Borger King, we do it our way. Your way is irrelevant."

quote:

---

Originally posted by aventari:
I certainly hope you use your brakes in a race!! Otherwise your precious muscle car wont last long ;]

---

I just figured the VW's on the road were there to slow me down.

------------------
damage@detonate.net

"On a long enough timeline the survival rate for anyone drops to zero."
-Narrator 'Fight Club.'

Your motorcycle would not perform as you say, as the wheels would just spin for a good portion of the day. However, the same motor in my mom's Chevy Tahoe would most days stick to the road and translate directly into road torque (minus auto transmission and other loss)... although, it's actually not impossible to squak the tires in that thing.

I agree with you on the power to weight ratio idea. I'm probably wrong, but I heard a while ago that a modified Dodge Neon RT had a better P/W ratio than a Viper, and was able to out accelerate it.

The advantage of a high power to weight ratio vehicle with low weight is that the driver can work the throttle to keep the wheels on the road. However, this won't help somebody off the line against someone who can just pound it.

I couldn't find the formulas (sold my statics book), but I'm pretty sure that road friction isn't linear with power to weight ratio. I assume it's quadratic, or something, and there is an optimal point where a certain weight will work best with a certain motor, certain tires, certain frame design, certain profile for air, certain gear ratios, certain compression ratio, certain weight distrobution, certain downforce modifiers, certain upholstery, certain reaction times, certain road surface, certain air density, certain air moisture... I'm sure I could keep it going, but.. yeah... no.

The point is that there are so many factors involved in the performance of a vehicle. Some are minor, some are major. The thing that keeps it exciting is that any combination of values for these variables will turn out differently, and will also depend on the type of competition you're in.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aventari:
I certainly hope you use your brakes in a race!! Otherwise your precious muscle car wont last long ;]

Hell I'f i was talking about that it would be a '67 Camaro w/ a 400 smallblock and a roots blower!

---

first part is called down shifting. I only touch the brakes to come to a complete stop.

400 small block....you think small...

Try a blown 427 big block in the same car. its fun to get it in there (NOT!)but once in you can rip a stock drive shaft in half.

------------------
Fucknuggets flamed while you wait.< TeamWolfguard.com >

I wish that made me feel better...
I had to miss work because the fucker wouldnt start yesterday

and picture this- me in my pjs at 7am trying to start the thing- I still have grease on my hands because of it but at least I got it started (wonder if it will work when I go to leave today HA)

Well Im taking it for a tune up tomorrow- maybe after they change a few things it will work (another big LAUGH) but at least my mom and dad said they would gimme the money for it (I hate that they even offered but since they did I may as well take it)

*sigh* everyone pray for me that I dont have to do what I did this morning in my nice business suit.

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"I ated the purple berries...they tasted like burning"

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Hey DKB shu'p with all that jibba jabber ya crazy foo!

------------------
"Here at Borger King, we do it our way. Your way is irrelevant."

wolfguard, i wouldn't ever put nos in a car. i have seen what happens to cars when that shit fucks up and i don't wish to have it happen to me!

aventari, i wasn't talking about a full blown drag car either. the point i was making is a stock 60's mustang will run low 13's, where you have to spend shit loads of money to get your's anywhere near that.

i just want a 69 mach I with a 400 modified, to beat the shit out of all those fucking ugly ass honda civics around my town, they have hugh tail wings sometimes stacked 2 high, they have grand turismo shit painted all over then and they sound like a constapated fart with a bad case of gas, with that damn 4-6 inch tip on the end of 2 inch pipes!!!!!!!! hondas can look good but not like that.

anyway, somehow i feel you guys left out torque during your hp/weight ratio. a 300hp car (we'll say it weighs 2000lbs) with only 150 ft-lbs of torque is not going to mesure up to a 400+hp car (3500lbs) with with anywhere from 250-400 ft-lbs of torque, it doesn't matter how light your car is, mine still has more than enough power to carry the extra weight

note: i am guessing on the the hp/torque/weight of a typical street racing honda. sure i could look it up but that would mean i would have to do something. something which i am not prepared to do.

This message has been edited by pengu1nn on February 19, 2001 at 01:38 PM

in the mood for some momma jokes today

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Hey DKB shu'p with all that jibba jabber ya crazy foo!

This message has been edited by Dark Knight Bob on February 19, 2001 at 03:06 PM

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sithiee:
spoilers should be illegal. unless they are stock, anyone who adds their own spoiler should lose their drivers license for 6 months, theyre just wrong. like puppy kicking.

---

if they are dont right and are there to do a job and not to look faster they are fine.

If you run a spoiler with out an air dam your just a fucknugget

quote:

---

Originally posted by pengu1nn:
blanalex, i'm glad your elantra is running good for you, but mine was a piece of shit. i did not have a chance to fuck it up before it fucked itself up. the motor is strong (damn thing would fly) but the trans is poorly made and can't handle the motor (i'm guessing on that one?, they had lots of problems with the trans in those cars). do you want a parts car?

---

no it will be ok, mine's running good (except for the timing belt's tensioner and valve seals), and i plan to buy a new (as in zero-mileage) somewhere in the 18 next months

in the elentra 92 both the engine and the trans are designed and built by mitsubishi (same as the dodge colt 92 IIRC), while the engine is not fragile, you can't say that it is strong as in powerful

105 HP is not exactly powerful (yet i've been able to do powershifts -- with the automatic trans!), but hey it does get to 100mph with a little patience

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#define QUESTION (2b)| |!(2b)

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"I ated the purple berries...they tasted like burning"

------------------
"I ated the purple berries...they tasted like burning"

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dark Knight Bob:
power to weight ratio is a BIG factor they use downforce to compensate for the lack of weight cos they can control where the weight is. Why do you think the Lancer Evo VI RULEZ.... COS ITS LIGHT SO IT CAN GET UP TO 180MPH ON JUST 280 FUCKING HP!!! and before you say yeah but that probably takes like an hour to get that high swivle on this. IT CAN OUT ACCELERATE A DIABLO!!! WOOHAHAHA I LOVE THIS CAR! (hey that rhymed)

---

dude, i dont give a shit if it can out-accel a diablo, sif anyone would take a shit evo-6 over a diablo... hmm let me see... MONSTER PRESTIGE CAR vs chopped up passengar car hmmm

sorry, too much alcahol

quote:

---

Originally posted by blanalex:
in the elentra 92 both the engine and the trans are designed and built by mitsubishi (same as the dodge colt 92 IIRC), while the engine is not fragile, you can't say that it is strong as in powerful

105 HP is not exactly powerful (yet i've been able to do powershifts -- with the automatic trans!), but hey it does get to 100mph with a little patience

---

Ugh, yet another reason to dump the Hyundai.

Mitshubishi has a reputation for building very unreliable engines and trannies. Witness the Starion/Conquest aka StarQuest. This is one of the coolest looking cars IMHO but the motor was absolute garbage! It has the Mitsubishi 2.6l iron block/aluminum head 4 cylinder with a turbo. The heads crack on a regular basis. You'd be lucky to get 50k miles out of that motor before replacing the head (probably a ũ-2000 job), and if you want to turn the boost up a bit? forget it..

And then there's the Eclipse. While mechanically more sound than the StarQuest, the all wheel drive version has major clutch and tranny issues. For a published record, just check out Turbo magazines 'Project: Eclipse'. After about 3 or 4 installments of the article, they had already put in _7 or 8_ clutches and about that many transmissions and transfer cases.

In other words, be wary of Mitsubishi, and never ever buy a Hyundai. or Diahatsu, or Daewoo, or Kia, etc.

*coats self with flame retardant*

BTW- How exactly do you powershift an automatic transmission? Did you replace the torque converter with a clutch or something? heh

edit- we love milk

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"Here at Borger King, we do it our way. Your way is irrelevant."

This message has been edited by aventari on February 21, 2001 at 10:42 AM

quote:

---

Originally posted by aventari:
Ugh, yet another reason to dump the Hyundai.

In other words, be wary of Mitsubishi, and never ever buy a Hyundai. or Diahatsu, or Daewoo, or Kia, etc.

*coats self with flame retardant*

BTW- How exactly do you powershift an automatic transmission? Did you replace the torque converter with a clutch or something? heh

edit- we love milk

---

well, all consumer hyundai cars built after 1995 all got hyundai's home-engineered and home-made engines. as for the trans, i don't know, but i suppose they are at least engineering themselves.

and on how to make powershifts with an auto trans (especially with an engine with so little torque), first it takes a heavy right foot and a slipping 1st or 2nd gear clutch

i let you guess what's next

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#define QUESTION (2b)| |!(2b)

quote:

---

Originally posted by fatbitch:
dude, i dont give a shit if it can out-accel a diablo, sif anyone would take a shit evo-6 over a diablo... hmm let me see... MONSTER PRESTIGE CAR vs chopped up passengar car hmmm

sorry, too much alcahol

---

*gets big knife to cut you beatch*

------------------
Hey DKB shu'p with all that jibba jabber ya crazy foo!

when they rebuilt my transmission they were all talking about slipping clutches, and i never heard 'torque converter' (or 'convertisseur de couple' either)

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#define QUESTION (2b)| |!(2b)

This message has been edited by masher on February 22, 2001 at 09:30 PM

quote:

---

Originally posted by askheaves:
Don't be going and knocking NASCAR now. It takes a hell of a lot of skill to drive at the theoretical limit of your vehicle around a turn without hitting a wall, all while 3 abreast and tailgating somebody at 2 inches from their bumper. Unless you're talking about Daytona... then, it's on the order of 170ish around the corners, and we're talking 4-5 wide.

---

mmm. lots of skill. its just a circle
only one big corner.

give me V8 touring cars or F1 any day. Its a test of real driving skill, not just how fast you can drive.

Touring cars have got corners. Left and right!! and tight ones and long ones. straights and chicanes. Some tracks even have bridges and tunnels.

That racing is a damn sight more interesting to watch than a bunch of cars driving around in circles.

We've got tailgaters at 2in but they have to contend with dips and rises in the tracks, corners and everything else.

This is a true test a driving ability.

------------------
"All is number" - Pythagoras

quote:

---

Originally posted by masher:
mmm. lots of skill. its just a circle
only one big corner.

give me V8 touring cars or F1 any day. Its a test of real driving skill, not just how fast you can drive.

---

Hey masher, maybe you should just keep it simple like going around in a big circle. Then when you graduate to NOT double posting you can have some right turns in there.

You could have at least edited the second one and put something new in it.

------------------
Chastity is curable, if detected early.
I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.
For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.

quote:

---

Originally posted by blanalex:
Btw, i don't know much in cars (else maybe i wouln'd have bought a pre-1995 hyundai), but what's a torque converter?

when they rebuilt my transmission they were all talking about slipping clutches, and i never heard 'torque converter' (or 'convertisseur de couple' either)

---

Its the bit that transfers power from the motor to the automatic tranmission. it only engages the trans after the motor reaches a given rpm. Its an automatic clutch. its big, heavy, and a major pain in the ass to replace since it holds more than 1/2 the total fluid in your trans.

------------------
Fucknuggets flamed while you wait.< TeamWolfguard.com >

------------------
Hey DKB shu'p with all that jibba jabber ya crazy foo!

------------------
Hey DKB shu'p with all that jibba jabber ya crazy foo!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wolfguard:
Its the bit that transfers power from the motor to the automatic tranmission. it only engages the trans after the motor reaches a given rpm. Its an automatic clutch.

---

ok, and so, if i understand, when they say like in the specs of my car 'automatic transmission w/ locking torque converter' it means that the trans electronic controller can lock the trans in a gear even if normally the fluid pressure would have made the torque converter shift into the other gear, right?

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#define QUESTION (2b)| |!(2b)

It's hard to explain, and I suck at "communication" but here goes... imagine two turbine wheels or next to each other. You want to get one wheel (attached to the engine) to transfer it's rotational force to the other wheel next to it (attached to the transmission) but they do not touch.

You _could_ just weld them together and then they would turn together as one. BUT we need them to disengage from each other sometimes too..so..

You encase the turbines in metal and fill the container with thick hydraulic fluid.

Now when you turn the 'turbine' on the engine side, it starts the fluid moving with it. And then that fluid starts the other turbine turning with it. (at a slower rate of course) The faster you turn the engine over, the more energy is transferred to the fluid and then to the transmission turbine.

And because these 2 turbines aren't connected directly, that is why you can sit at a stop light with the engine running and the car stopped. The engine turbine is turning slowly(directly connected to the engine), moving the fluid, but it's not enough to turn the other turbine over at all.

Now when you say a 'lock-up' torque converter, that means that when you're cruising down the Interstate at 80mph, the torque converter will lock the 2 turbines together and they will turn at the same rate.
This is very good for gas mileage. However if you dont have a lock-up converter, the engine would be running something like 500rpm higher because the engine side turbine will always be turning faster than the other turbine--the fluid buffer between them will make that possible.

hope that makes a modicum of sense

------------------
"Here at Borger King, we do it our way. Your way is irrelevant."

quote:

---

Originally posted by aventari:
hope that makes a modicum of sense

---

yep, sure does, i'll go to bed tonight a bit less ignorant tonight

well now that's amazing given how this things works that it's still so much efficient. not as much as metal-to-metal clutch, but only _liquid_ transferring so much power!

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#define QUESTION (2b)| |!(2b)

This message has been edited by blanalex on February 22, 2001 at 08:37 PM

quote:

---

Originally posted by L33T_h4x0r_d00d:
Then when you graduate to [b]NOT double posting you can have some right turns in there.
[/B]

---

Sorry about that. I've been have problems with refreshing lately, my browser doesn't always update the page after I've posted.

The edit is done...

edit: spelling and grammar...

------------------
"All is number" - Pythagoras

This message has been edited by masher on February 22, 2001 at 11:01 PM

Im totally lost in this thread even though I started it...

Serves me right

quote:

---

Originally posted by jrh1406:
only a 7.8 percent power loss with the automatic transmissions

---

ONLY?

Some people are willing to put hundreds of bucks into their car for that much performance boost.

Is the loss an acceleration loss? Or is it sustained over distance due to different turbine turning rates?

Another question. When does the locking torque converter kick in? Is it quickly after the drive is engaged? Or is it only during sustained speeds? Because, I'd love to regain some power during acceleration... actually, I'd like to get back to a stick.

I miss you, Daisy

quote:

---

Originally posted by askheaves:
ONLY?
Some people are willing to put hundreds of bucks into their car for that much performance boost.
...
Another question. When does the locking torque converter kick in? Is it quickly after the drive is engaged? Or is it only during sustained speeds? Because, I'd love to regain some power during acceleration... actually, I'd like to get back to a stick.

---

Heh hell ya, on a V8 that power loss could easily be 30 horsepower!

But the thing w/ automatics is that there is some power loss (7.8\% i guess :] ) because of the torque converter, BUT with regards to acceleration, you gain some or most of it back becuase of the effective gear ratio change caused by the torque converter letting the motor spin faster relative to the tranny. This multiplys the torque being put to the ground, helping you out down the drag strip.

IMHO the main reason why automatics suck at drag racing (for the most part) is because they have less gears than a stick, and they hardly ever shift at the right time for maximum acceleration--usually shifting way too early. Plus of course there's the 7.8\% thing.

Thats why you proabably dont want your torque converter to lock up during accelation, because it will still have almost all of the crappyness of the automatic, but you wont even get the torque multiplication benefit of the torque converter anymore.

And your lock-up converter is designed to engage when you are cruising along at a steady speed or accelerating slowly, not during hard acceleration.

On a side note; a company Option-6 has a 6 speed transmission they offer for most water-cooled VWs such as mine.
mmmmm.. six speed
/me drools..

------------------
"Here at Borger King, we do it our way. Your way is irrelevant."

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wolfguard:
Used nox once. its a scary thing when you hit the nox at 140 and cherp the tires.

---

Let me guess.... 427 powered combat robot or American muscle.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sithiee:
a heavier car keeps more weight on the wheels, which gives the wheels more friction, which, in turn makes all your torque more effective. you dont want a light ass car, you just want one thats heavy enough to grip the road, and light enough to not be too slow, but heavy cars arent bad. dont fuck with physics.

---

I do believe the generally accepted equation is you loose 0.1 seconds off your 1/4 mile for ever 100 lbs you add. Which would mean that a car twice as heavy would require an engine 4 times a powerful to keep up.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wolfguard:
once in you can rip a stock drive shaft in half.

---

Oh man thats no fun. Happened to me when I first put my procharger on. Not only does shit come flying out from underneath your car but usually your rpms go through the roof. Then your stuck there. Fucking tow truck drivers. Always assholes. "Maybe next time you'll take it easier". FUCKNUGGET.

This message has been edited by L33T_h4x0r_d00d on February 25, 2001 at 03:21 AM

quote:

---

Originally posted by aventari:
BUT with regards to acceleration, you gain some or most of it back becuase of the effective gear ratio change caused by the torque converter letting the motor spin faster relative to the tranny. This multiplys the torque being put to the ground, helping you out down the drag strip.

IMHO the main reason why automatics suck at drag racing (for the most part) is because they have less gears than a stick, and they hardly ever shift at the right time for maximum acceleration

On a side note; a company Option-6 has a 6 speed transmission they offer for most water-cooled VWs such as mine.
mmmmm.. six speed
/me drools..

---

WHAT???
You need to pass the pipe around the circle cause you've had it for too long.

YOU CANNOT MULTIPLY TORQUE WITH GEARING.

Torque can have a greater effect by gearing it different but it doesnt CHANGE your torque rating.

If automatice suck so bad at the drag strip why are probably 75\% of race only cars equipped with powerglide 2 or 3 speed AUTOMATIC transmissions?

What happens is everybody maxes out the car for what the class they are racing in limits. There are weight limits, hp limits, air intake limits, and nos limits. It is far worth it for them to run a race bred automatic tranny that does all the shifting for them and get reliable numbers than make up that extra hp. when your car is 700-2500 hp 30 hp isnt shit. But consistant numbers are. Plus how much user error is included with.

Step 1. When light turns green push pedal down.
Step 2. When you pass finish line let off gas pedal.

I have an uncle that races a full on dragster and an alcohol funny car. In both classes there are NO manual transmissions. They are allowed but no one uses them.

Now VW may not make automatics that shift right but over here in america they do.

If you want a decent 6 speed go get yourself a borg warner t-56. Camaros, firebirds, corvettes and vipers cant be wrong.(mine r0x0rs too)

This message has been edited by L33T_h4x0r_d00d on February 25, 2001 at 03:41 AM

quote:

---

Originally posted by L33T_h4x0r_d00d:
WHAT???
You need to pass the pipe around the circle cause you've had it for too long.

---

*sigh* the lame insults come flying...

quote:

---

Originally posted by L33T_h4x0r_d00d:
YOU CANNOT MULTIPLY TORQUE WITH GEARING.

Torque can have a greater effect by gearing it different but it doesnt CHANGE your torque rating.

---

Well _of course_ a tansmission gear isn't going to change your motor's torque rating, but it WILL change the EFFECTIVE torque transferred to the pavement. Which is all we care about.

quote:

---

Originally posted by L33T_h4x0r_d00d:
If automatice suck so bad at the drag strip why are probably 75\% of race only cars equipped with powerglide 2 or 3 speed AUTOMATIC transmissions?

---

Because you can achive a consistant 1/4 mile time much easier w/ an automatic transmission. And that's what bracket drag racing is all about. Plus they're much more reliable than the older stick shift trannys available(for a reasonable price) for big ass V-8s.

I dont give a shit about bracket racing though- all I care about is straight-up head-to-head racing-- which car gets down that strip of asphalt first. Just like on the street. I'll leave the bracket racing to trailer queens which never get a glimpse of the street. how boring.

quote:

---

Originally posted by L33T_h4x0r_d00d:
... It is far worth it for them to run a race bred automatic tranny that does all the shifting for them and get reliable numbers than make up that extra hp. when your car is 700-2500 hp 30 hp isnt shit. But consistant numbers are. Plus how much user error is included with.

---

Maybe you don't understand the concept of percentages... here's a quick lesson

jrh1406 said(and I'm inclined to believe) that Chevy High Performance found a torque converter makes for a 7.8\% loss in power. Which for your 700-*cough*2500hp engine is 54-200 horsepower. I guess 200 horsepower still "isn't shit" huh?

and FYI those high horsepower cars dont use automatics at all. They use special drag racing transmissions called LENCO trannys. Which are not even close to automatics.

quote:

---

Originally posted by L33T_h4x0r_d00d:
Step 1. When light turns green push pedal down.
Step 2. When you pass finish line let off gas pedal.

---

EXACTLY. and I'll say it again: HOW BORING.

quote:

---

Originally posted by L33T_h4x0r_d00d:
If you want a decent 6 speed go get yourself a borg warner t-56. Camaros, firebirds, corvettes and vipers cant be wrong.(mine r0x0rs too)

---

Okay, dude. I'll just bolt up a T-56 RWD transmission to my sub-compact FRONT WHEEL DRIVE car. great idea

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"Every program has at least one bug and can be shortened by at least one instruction -- from which, by induction, one can deduce that every program can be reduced to one instruction which doesn't work."