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Forum: Rants
Topic: Idiocy
started by: Phanatos

Posted by Phanatos on Jun. 23 2000,15:48

So they ruled in some state that it is required for Arcade Game manufacturers to put a rating on their arcade games, and if it's a Mature rating, the kid has to be 18 to play. If the kid is not 18, he has to have his mommy watching him. If neither of those come true, he gets fined something like 500$ and the establishment gets a hefty fine. What the HELL is this. When did we give up enough of our freedom that the damn gov't can fine us for playing a violent videogame. It's all because of the retards at columbine that shot everyone in their school. People say violence is learned through video games or violent movies.. Not true. Violence is learned through the NEWS. Anyone turn on a TV once in the week after the Columbine incident? What did you see? Dead bodies? People running out of the school for their lives? Gimme a break. If the news didn't shove cameras into the pools of blood and into the faces of parents who just found out their kids were dead, half of this crap wouldn't happen. If Movies and Video-Games are any sort of influence towards violence in life and such, they are just a little piece of the world that helps a psycho person identify. I'm pretty fucked up as a person and I used to play hours of quake and such. I haven't killed anyone. Not planning on it either.

I guess it just goes to show that a bad apple can ruin it for the entire bunch.

If you have any comments about the validity of this rant, stuff 'm.

Posted by XaSERaX on Jun. 23 2000,15:56

just parents not doing their job of watching their kids, they will probably end up checking ids to get into the adult video game arcade in my area soon,

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"When aiming three blocks away at a 4th story window from your apartment with a high powered air gun and scope. Always make sure there is not a walking patrol cop below your building."

Posted by Sithiee on Jun. 23 2000,18:29

personally i find it is the exact opposite of what the media says...more often people with mroe violent tendencies play less violent games, and vice versa. when you play violent video games, you take out your anger on the game, and then your not gonna go shoot people. when you play games like tetris, you dont really release any anger, and thusly its more often people like this who go beat up little kids and whatnot.

there are also studies that back up what i just said. theres also some idiotic military dude who says that us playing violent video games is preparation for using real weapons. i have lots of proof against this. i play lots of video games, id say im pretty good at them, at least better than average. i joined the rifle club last year at my school, and i was the worst person on the team. not like bad, but i mean there was one time when i didnt hit any of the targets at all. on the flipside, all the best people who are on the team are relativly not too good at computer games, save one or two people.

the media is dumb and is ruining things for the rest of us.

Posted by Hellraiser on Jun. 23 2000,21:37

Well, I'm a fair shot with both a real gun and a rail gun, but I know what you say to be true. Violence is inherent in our nature, and if expressed in the form of games and play is reduced, thereby reducing the tendency towards violence to others. Some people are more violent than others, as well.

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Just your generic meaningless signature. Mix with 2 quarts water and stir till evenly coated.

Posted by Firefox on Jun. 24 2000,00:48

That "military guy" is Colonel Grossman. I heard what he said about video games, and although I appreciate his concern for the good upbringing of the world's children, I think he is a moron.

I can't stand hearing people say that games like Doom or Quake teach kids to be calculated, cold-blooded killers, or well trained killing machines. Give me a freakin' break. Do you think that if you ran around shooting demons in DOOM for a few hours you would be able to pick up a Colt M1 Carbine and be at all effective in using it?? Since when was clicking a freakin' mouse the exact same as firing an assault rifle?

I've played first person shooters since I was like 13, and I'm really not a violent person. Once, when I was out at my cousins' farm, we went to a target range for something to do. I was terrible- I tried shooting a British made 303 rifle, and my accuracy was terrible. I couldn't even hit the target unless I was either lying down or laying the gun on an aiming support. Yet I had played hours and hours of violent games... hmm, interesting.

If ANYTHING, the only thing that these games really teach well is teamwork and co-operation. I know that playing a game of Counterstrike with a good group of people is a great excersise in co-operating, and learning to work together. So is teamwork now a bannable offence?? Should we ban organized sports for kids because they teach them to work together, and some day they may use those skills to work together as a team as they shoot hundreds of people??

Give me a freakin' break. Shudder.

-FFox

Posted by Chrissy on Jun. 24 2000,01:46

I notice we always get back to this "Nature vs Nurture" argument
You realise what you are doing is making excuses for your violent behaviour don't you?
I'm not arguing this point again- I will however point to my "proof" against your "nature" argument- See my "NOW IM PISSED OFF" rant for some sites and books etc on my POV.

As everyone here already knows Im not about the whole nature thing. Every single social science justifies my claim about socital influence on violence, sexuality, and gendering. Again anyone who wants a good look at this can email me Lilly1978@hotmail.com
and I can point you in a direction of a good sociological study that backs this claim up or even a book a site that might do the same.

All I want is for people to start looking into other points of view before you go off and decided that you have no control over yourself. Because in actuality this is what you are saying. That you have no control over who you are or what you do. Your "natural instincts/desires" what have you control who you are as a human being. Not everything can be "explained" by nature. You may actually find that these sites (again NOW IM PISSED OFF has them) may change your mind about how you view your world.

Keep it in mind next time you want to argue about nature vs nurture. A good debater always knows both sides to his/her debate. =)

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"The causes we know everything about depend on the causes we know nothing about, which depend on the causes we know absolutely nothing about."- Tom Stoppard

Posted by The_Hiro on Jun. 24 2000,04:20

I've taken some sociology courses, philosophy courses, and science courses at university. So I've received exposure to both sides of the 'nature-nurture' debate. And I'm firmly convinced that nature and nurture interact with one another to determine who we are. So I disagree with anyone who emphatically takes a side on this issue.

I agree with you Chrissy, that biological determinism is often used as a copout to excuse bad behaviour; this is an abuse of science. However, I disagree with your extremist empiricism. Ignoring the role that nature plays in forming who we are is a path fraught with peril; it's analgous to ignoring the lessons of history.

How a biological determinist and an empiricist would argue over history:
BD: "History is doomed to repeat itself. You'd better learn to accept war, famine and suffering."
Em: "Bah history! Why do you always dwell on history? We need to deal with today!"

Both stances have an element of truth to them, both are wrong. Yes, it's true we aren't only our genes, and using 'nature' to excuse ourselves for behaving violently is wrong. But to ignore nature is to set ourselves up for a fall, and I don't see what's gained by blinding ourselves.

Ah well. I doubt I've convinced you. The nature-nurture debate is an old one and I've never seen any of its participants compromise. We're probably going to end up agreeing to disagree.

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That said, I will now take the side of the devil's advocate (and I'm sure I'm gonna get lynched for it):
With respect to violent games, yeah I think they promote violence, but only minimally. I disagree with the argument that violent videogames are cathartic. I've read some sociological and psychological studies on videogame violence that suggest just the opposite (although I'll admit the studies weren't that conclusive).

I do think, that on their own, such games lack the power to transform adolescent males into killers. However, I think the sum total of violent influences in the media (and this includes violent video games) has had a negative impact. Make of that what you will.

Btw, I used to be an afficianado of Doom, Quake, and QII (Still am to a certain extent). So I am aware of what the experience is like. I've felt the rush of taking the lead in frag counts and the anguish of getting railed 20x in a row... Heh.

Okay. So I've put myself up against the wall and everybody hates me now. You guys can open fire at will.

[This message has been edited by The_Hiro (edited June 24, 2000).]

Posted by Client on Jun. 24 2000,19:31

Being a violent video game addict, I am drawn to the sick killing and pain that is so easily and heartlessly applied to enemies of the good player...yet i do see some connection...or at least from the games to the world (more accurately the world to the games). I am surprised there aren't any Rape or Molestation games on the market (I’m probably just unaware of them). Violence is defiantly a part of life in general, and it seems that if society shields their children from it entirely, the awe and power of it grows to a point where children love it. Sex is very similar, or at least the sexual happenings of individuals i know: The less open their parents were about sex, the more curious and unsafe they eventually were. This is generally because without some adult influence, a child simply receives input from television and his peers, which are, in the most truthful of terms, usually inaccurate. I think that a parent should have to give his/her child consent to play video games; its exactly the same as movie ratings. I don't know about you guys, but I have at least three images that I can recall from past movies that wont leave my head. I never want to see these things again, they make me sick, yet they are there and I can’t get rid of them. All three of the images are from my movie watching youth, in which I believe that I was very impressionable. A human mind remembers a lot more than people think; almost everything a person sees has some impact on him/her. So I can understand the 18+ idea as a recommendation, but not a law. Generally, I think children should be kept from some things until they are more developed and less susceptible. Now, at 17, I don't have problems with hearing “MOMOMONSTER KILL” as the thirteenth head jumps ten feet in air, but I still remember “The Fly” when we breaks that guys arm…damnation.

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"Around 2300, every square mile of the earth's landmass will have the population density of Manhattan at noon."
-Isaac Asimov

Ever see a cage of rats starve to death?

Posted by Sithiee on Jun. 24 2000,23:40

id like to make the point that comparativly, the fly remake sucks off goats for a living compared to the original fly...the original fly was much scarier than the remake.

that being said, id like to sorta reinforce my point some. i think to many people playing violent video games is cathartic. maybe it does promote violence. but can you really tell me that no matter how mad or high or whatever you may be, that you arent going to know thw difference between a trigger and a mouse button? the people who do this sort of thing are sick in the first place, and video games had little to no part in what they did.

Posted by Firefox on Jun. 25 2000,17:43

Just to add a point, do you think that if the two guys who shot up Columbine had never played violent video games before, they would be completely different people? I think that the statement that a source of exposure can have an influence is true to a certain degree, but it is never a single influence. I am sure those kids had a lot of problems that stemmed from family troubles, troubles dealing with people, troubles using common sense over irrational action, etc. All these problems can not, and DO not, stem from a single source, I can assure you.

-FFox

Posted by Phanatos on Jun. 26 2000,11:33

It does make me wonder. I'm not sure what would happen if they had never played Doom or never listened to KMFDM or never saw the Matrix, etc. Wouldn't it be horrible if there was nothing left to blame except for the kids or their parents!

That goes against everything America stands for! Take responsibility for my actions? What? My kids killed people and it's MY fault? pfft. They'd blame it on their clothes. If not, they'd blame it on something else. Ultimately they'd blame it on anything except for themselves until such a point in time that there was nothing else to blame, and then they'd blame their kids. It's a shame that our country is like this, but it is.

We live in a society of people who refuse to take responsibility for their actions. If your kid grows up to be a psycho, maybe you should have bought him Teddy Ruxpin instead of the Walther PPK Semi-automatic .38 for his 9th birthday. Too late now. We blame everything except for ourselves when in all actuality more of the things we're trying to blame on material items (such as video games, movies, music) are just ways for us to deny that we ourselves have a problem. Human nature has always been to compete and be better, it's just the whackos that never learned to play fair that screw us up.

Phanatos

Posted by Wolfguard on Jun. 26 2000,13:37

i had 4 years in the US Army doing things to people that people should not do to each other and it does not bother me. I watched others crack under the same conditions. Im trained in urban and jungle conflicts, I have been trained to dissapear and cause maximum damage in both these enviroments. Im a trained sniper. Im trained with explosives. I have anger issues. I have not even thought about climbing a bell tower and raining death on people or blowing up buildings.

Think about this...

It is in my nature to be able to do such things but i have been nurtured so i know not to.

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Nuke em' till they glow and shoot em’ in the dark and let the computer sort em' out.
Then wait for a mutation…

Posted by Bozeman on Jun. 26 2000,15:28

I was just curious, does anyone know which state these 18+ arcade game laws are in? I want to avoid living or vacationing there in the future. Any state legislature that considers such a bill should have a vote of no confidence immediately, and a swift re-election in favor of less idiotic officials.

Posted by The_Hiro on Jul. 02 2000,19:43

I've come across an article in support of violence in the media. Judging from this thread, some of you may appreciate it. It talks about how rage is an important emotion for dealing with life. Anyhow, if you read < this article > you'll have more convincing arguments to use when you want to defend Quake and such.

Posted by Ozymandias on Jul. 03 2000,01:02

Oh no! That is horrid! We must all learn to supress all emotions, except for joyous love for our fellow man, and for BIG BROTHER! Thank you, Big Brother, for censoring our everyday lives!

Posted by Nene on Jul. 03 2000,13:59

ummm...oooookay. Somebody bop Ozy upside the head, something is loose!

I think parents aren't nearly as involved as they should be. I sort of agree with that law in the respect that it gets the message across that parents need to pay attention. No, I do not think that video games cause violence. I play Quake, and I have problems murdering a spider that's hanging out in my closet. (cup and cardboard extraction).
Days like last night make me think parents should sit and watch while their kids play games. I'm not a stiff by any means, but I wound up leaving a CTF arena because some idiot kid (he had to be a kid) was spouting some of the most racist crap I've heard in a while, including calling the winning team "niggers" "immigrant spicks" and other choice terms. Would he do it if his parents were in the same room? Last night was not the only time its happened either.

The reason we HAVE Big Brother is because there aren't a whole lot of people out there taking care of shit on their own. Same reason we have directions written on everything that tell you the obvious, because somewhere, somehow, somebody needs to be told that NO, you cannot eat Liquid Plumber. YES, coffee is hot and will burn you if you spill it while driving.

*sigh*

Daily rant, all done.

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"Due to budgetary restraints, the light at the end of the tunnel will be shut off until further notice."

http://www.angelfire.com/nv/neneshome/index.html

Posted by Ozymandias on Jul. 03 2000,16:59

I agree, it's RIDICULOUS that we need to be told not to hurt ourselves. In all honesty, the people who hurt themselves doing INCREDIBLY stupid shit deserve it, and I don't need my intelligence insulted by looking at a warning label reading "Do Not Use On Face Or Head" every time I pick up a hammer.

Okay, that was a little exaggerated, but we're getting there. I remember a time I saw a roadsign near train tracks that said something to the effect of:

"Do Not Park On Train Tracks"

What the FUCK? Does anyone out there NOT HAVE THE BASIC COMMON SENSE NOT TO PARK ON TRAIN TRACKS?! Even people who's stupidity would prohibit them from EVER obtaining a driver's license KNOW that you wouldn't park on MOTHERFUCKING TRAIN TRACKS.

It is animal instinct to NOT go into places that are known to be dangerous, yet Americans today are so protected, so sure that some Big Brother/God/Superman is going to keep them out of harm's way...It's just idiotic. Nobody should have to be TOLD not to do something that will bring OBVIOUS clear and present DANGER TO THEMSELVES.

As for the little racist bastard on CTF Arena...Well, that's an entirely different rant of mine.

Posted by jrh1406 on Jul. 03 2000,23:56

It may sound sick and twisted, but i feel that if people want to do stupid shit that would pull them out of the gene pool, then let them do it. I don't want any force in this world to make my life fisher price safe just because a handfull of people are idiots.

Posted by Nene on Jul. 04 2000,01:40

< www.darwinawards.com >

doesn't claim NEARLY enough awardees.

*sigh*
off to drink my lukewarm coffee...

Yes, lets have a quake rant. That would go on forever. I could come up with many choice bitches...but then again, I'm always ready to fuss.

kisses

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"Due to budgetary restraints, the light at the end of the tunnel will be shut off until further notice."

http://www.angelfire.com/nv/neneshome/index.html

Posted by Happyfish on Jul. 04 2000,02:55

Ozymandias: Most of those seemingly stupid warnings are disclaimers, so people can't sue. Ill gotten gain is what it's all about.
And some people are just really dumb.

Posted by Firefox on Jul. 05 2000,15:37

The reason McDonalds has "CAUTION: HOT!!" written in about 5 places on their coffee cups now was a result of that lawsuit they lost from the lady who spilt hot coffee all over herself a while back. She sued them for god knows what, and WON. I still can't get over the fact that she WON.

I don't know if you have heard of this, but there was a person who was using a toilet at a Starbucks somewhere in the US, and he... uhm... 'accidentally' jammed his thing in the toilet seat (yes, I have no friggin' clue how this would happen either)... so anyway, his doctor said irreparable damage was done and he ended up suing Starbucks for physical pain and mental damage... Yes, SUED THEM.

Next time you have guests over at your house, be sure to get them to sign a waver before they take a piss... you can never really be too sure, you know.

I am so tired of these stupid idiots... and I don't want to slander the US or anything, but it seems like the US has more than it's fair share of morons.

(Fun fact- The USA makes up about 5\% of the worlds population, but approximately 65\% of all the laywers in the world can be found within US borders... that should tell you something.)

-FFox

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"A christian, an anarchist-slash-prostitute, figures out the true meaning of freedom. Not freedom like America, freedom like a shopping cart."
-NOFX

Posted by pi42 on Jul. 05 2000,16:06

Actually, McDonald's appealed, and they won, reducing her settlement from an insane Ū million to a rather petty บ,000 or so.

Posted by Firefox on Jul. 05 2000,19:22

No kidding. If I go to the grocery store, buy a whole watermelon, try to swallow it whole, and choke to death in the process, is it the grocery stores' fault that I am fucking stupid? I think not.

-FFox

Posted by nautilus on Jul. 05 2000,21:49

And if you're trying to do this at the age of like 12, and your mommy doesn't tell you not to do it, it's not the store's fault either. All laws like this do is have the government play parent instead of parents taking the time to do it themselves.

Posted by Bozeman on Jul. 06 2000,05:32

From what I heard about the McDonalds coffee lawsuit, the woman orded coffee at the drive-thru, and, while driving, placed the fragile styrofoam cup BETWEEN HER LEGS! I don't think McDonalds should have to pay her anything.