Topic: When I was your age.....
started by: Jynx
I feel like I can't have any conversation with someone older than, say, 40, without them mentioning how society has been going downhill, and it is really starting to PISS ME OFF. Guess what? Despite what everyone says, it isn't!
I am SOOO tired of hearing how there's "so much more corruption, crime, filth, bla bla bla...", when the truth is, we just hear about it more. My theory is that society isn't getting worse, it's just changing, and for every bad thing that happens, there is a good thing that counters it. Besides, murder isn't anything new--what about the story of Cain and Abel (let's NOT get into religion here, tho'--this is just an example of a story)?
We as The Human Race are evolving, and are bettering ourselves. Life expectancy is going up, crime is, believe it or not, going down, and the fact that the only thing we have to worry about in our day-to-day lives is whether or not gas prices are going up should be an indicator of something! I'd rather worry about gas than World War III any day of the week. We are bringing about a Global Economy, which will unify most of the known world, and that is a Good Thing--it's really unlikely that economic partners are gonna start a war.
Do not put up with this crap! Every time someone whines about "this generation" or "society" going into the toilet, defend us! We ARE the future, we ARE the present, and we ARE doing a pretty good job of it, and WE SHOULD NOT BE ASHAMED OF IT.
OK, I feel better.
------------------
--Jynx
"If it's not one thing, it's two."
After all, what would you rather have, bad or worse? I'll choose bad. Besides, despite all the complaining and all of the problems, real and imagined, most of us are doing okay.
On the other hand in my area the "ghetto" attitude is slowly setting in. There are more and more police on the streets and if you go out for a walk, ghetto white trash will Yo Yo Yo and yell at you most likely. I mean comon, just because you think you are "ghetto" doesnt mean anyone really cares and is scared. Last but not least in yuppie developments its fine and dandy, people only come out of their houses on the weekends and all the housewives go shopping at the mall.
quote:
Originally posted by Jynx:
We as The Human Race are evolving, and are bettering ourselves. Life expectancy is going up, crime is, believe it or not, going down, and the fact that the only thing we have to worry about in our day-to-day lives is whether or not gas prices are going up should be an indicator of something!
I take it that you are only talking about the US since more than half the countries in the world have a few more things to worry about than gas prices. Especially since most of them don't have cars.
------------------
Estuan interius
ira vehementi
------------------
Nuke em' till they glow and shoot em’ in the dark and let the computer sort em' out.
Then wait for a mutation…
------------------
aventari
"If we can't fix it -- we'll fix it so nobody can." -- B. Gibbons
quote:
Originally posted by darksol:
ah yes, but masses are still as stupid if not worse, then they used to be.
Not necessarily any stupider, just not any smarter than before either. How intelligent we as a species are is more a function of evolution than anything else, and that sort of thing tends to take quite a lot of time to have any effect.
I don't think it's just a matter of us getting more information now. After all the tv has been in exsitence for more than 30 years, the radio even longer and letters have exsited since the dawn of time. I think we need to step outside of our own ethnocentric biases when we declare that "society isn't getting worse" because for some people it is.
------------------
Estuan interius
ira vehementi
quote:
Originally posted by darksol:
but we can have genocide, which is always fun. get people to take an intelligence/common sense/if you be cool test. Then if you fail you die.
They tried that 5000 years ago, and only eight people survived. It's best not to play god, but use more persuasion than force to change people. Anything else puts you on the level of the people you are trying to change.
------------------
Just your generic meaningless signature. Mix with 2 quarts water and stir till evenly coated.
Also, all the -isms that were mentioned before, those and many more have existed in the US and other countries for centuries. Now, in the later half of the 20th century, we have begun to see some of them vanish and other to recede. So instead of just looking at all the things that we still haven't fixed, take a moment to see what we have fixed. Trust me, it will make you feel better. Then we can tackel what is left.
quote:
Originally posted by dido:
there is still sexism, classism, homophobia, racism, poverty, homelessness ect.ect.ect...
Most of us here would claim that we could respect people's opinions, even if we did not agree with them. I hear people say that they have no problem with other people disagreeing with them, because they are entitled to their opinions.
Does this only apply to certain trendy topics in which we are allowed to have an opinion?
How can people condemn racism, sexism and everything alse and still claim that it's fine for people to hold different opinions?
Ever consider, when you condemn racism, that you are actually being racist against racist people? Probably not.
Don't get me wrong, I am not racist, but it really bugs me when people moralise in such a fashion without realising that their morality itself is all their own opinion as well.
Just... strikes me as contradictory..
I also have a coworker who has something against Jews, but we all ignore that aspect of him, and we respect him as an amazing hardware engineer.
Now, ignoring this won't solve problems, but it's probalby a waste of time to try to change something this ingrained in a person just because I don't agree with it. The more I see, the younger people are pretty tolerant, and are willing to let this stuff slide in older people. Last case in point: Pat Buchanen. He's never going to be elected President because he's as transparent as oil soaked wax paper. We all know he's a racist, hates Jews, hates homosexuals, etc, and America doesn't like somebody like that in control... and they express that opinion with their vote.
Hell, 15 years ago, we hated the Soviets, because we were 5, and we were pretty sure we were supposed to. Shortly thereafter, we embraced the Russians as our allies. So, not only are the young people less judgemental towards people, but they can learn quickly to adapt to the people that are being nice to us back.
------------------
"Blue elf has shot the food!"
I say this because...well, look at Isreal/Palestine. Look at the Former Yugoslavia. Things in our world get better in one respect, yet continue to degrade in another.
I can only hope one day everyone will realize the idiocy that is prejudice, but I'm not going to hold my breath. It seems that every generation loses a prejudice of the past, but gains a new one - usually due to some sort of war. We've seen hate breed from Africans (slavery, etc) to Jews (WWII) to Asians (Korean War, Vietnam) to Middle Easterners (Gulf, Terrorism Groups)...
also, about pat buchanan, will someone please give me an example to prove his racism/anti-semitism? theres some dumbass in my government class who actually believes hes not a racist or anti-semite, and the only evidence i had on hand was his quote about no gay marriages or gays in the military, and how profiling would suggest hes racist and such also. someone help me please.
also, askheaves, i have to give a personal thanks as a jew for not giving in to the peer pressure to hate jews. i really dont understand anti-semitism, i dont know any friendlier people than jews...but then again i dont know why anyone is prejiduced about these things....so yeah, thanks...
Back in the 70s when I was born, people looked towards the 2000s and thought we would have flying cars, world peace and see an end to world hunger. Instead we are dealing with the same shit that they had 40 years ago, just in varying degrees. So I'm sorry if I don't look at the brighter side of life, I guess from where I'm sitting there doesn't seem too much to cheer about when obviously we as the human race are bound to grow in only baby steps instead of reaching our full potential.
------------------
"Our hopes are high. Our faith in the people is great. Our courage is strong and our dreams for this beautiful country will never die" -Pierre Elliot Trudeau
BTW, interesting point, whiskey. However, notice that they've actually stopped shooting for a few hours lately, and the leaders are actually talking to each other now. There is still fighting, but now at least there is dialogue between the two. Baby steps, but they are steps in the right direction.
i do think that america is slowly strangling its self. i dont recall hearing of any stories of 13 y.o. boys killing people w/ bricks for no good reason 25 years ago. NAMBLA didnt exist 25 years ago. (but i cant be entirely sure as i was not alive 25 years ago.)
modern medical technology has pretty much halted the evolutionary process for human beings. not that it was progressing rapidly in the first place.
also, sithee, by saying "i dont know any friendlier people than jews" you are making a prejudiced statement. it is impossible to classify any religious group as friendlier than any other.
and while i do think the world is getting worse in some ways, it IS getting better in many others. and even though the world sucks sometimes, there is nothing worse than the guy who sits on his ass and does nothing about it.
quote:
Originally posted by mqa:
and while i do think the world is getting worse in some ways, it IS getting better in many others. and even though the world sucks sometimes, there is nothing worse than the guy who sits on his ass and does nothing about it.
Here here!! I agree fully and completely! If one is not willing to get off thier duff to help out, then imho they sholdn't really complain. I feel that way about voting. If you didn't vote don't complain cause you threw your one chance to change things out the window.
Get involved...
------------------
"Our hopes are high. Our faith in the people is great. Our courage is strong and our dreams for this beautiful country will never die" -Pierre Elliot Trudeau
------------------
"Everyone's favorite implement for any task"
------------------
quote:
Originally posted by dido:
If you didn't vote don't complain cause you threw your one chance to change things out the window.Get involved...
ok lets see...Bush or Gore... Ill take the ice pick to the base of the brain thankyou.
Do you realy want me to pick the better fucknugget out of these two? You must be kidding me. You want change? Then vote 3rd party. Its got to be better then these two.
------------------
Nuke em' till they glow and shoot em’ in the dark and let the computer sort em' out.
Then wait for a mutation…
quote:
Originally posted by Jynx:
BTW, interesting point, whiskey. However, notice that they've actually stopped shooting for a few hours lately, and the leaders are actually talking to each other now. There is still fighting, but now at least there is dialogue between the two. Baby steps, but they are steps in the right direction.
Can't say I agree with you, Jynx. Sure, the leaders are getting together, but I think it's pretty evident that the heads of state have lost total control. It seems to be a people's revolt.
Regardless, today's headline:
(AP) - In a bitter cycle of retaliation, Palestinians threw stones and firebombs at Israeli troops Tuesday after a night when Israeli helicopter rained missiles on command centers of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement. The Israeli assault was a response to the slayings of two Jews, presumably by Palestinians.
quote:
Originally posted by Wolfguard:
ok lets see...Bush or Gore... Ill take the ice pick to the base of the brain thankyou.
Do you realy want me to pick the better fucknugget out of these two? You must be kidding me. You want change? Then vote 3rd party. Its got to be better then these two.
I agree Wolfguard. Voting for a third party is not "throwing your vote away" as is commonly said. If everyone who wants to vote for someone other than Gore or Bush actually did so, there would be a big change in American politics. It could be the beginning of the end of the two party system. Not to mention it would help to raise the voter turn out rate (which I believe is somewhere in the 40-45\% range) by providing a good alternative to the classic two parties.
In Canada we are having an election right now and the media is making it out to be a race between the Canadian Alliance and the Liberals. However there are still two other parties in the fray (The Progressive Conservatives and the New Democratic Party)who are being virtually ignored. Between the Libs and the Alliance it's almost a choice between the lesser of two evils. But if people voted for the NDP like they want to it would send a real message to the governing party that the current attack on our social programs will not be stood for. And one never knows perhaps the NDP would actually form the government (a feat that has never occured before).
In short: Vote for who you want to vote for, even if it's a thrid party...just get out and vote!
------------------
"Our hopes are high. Our faith in the people is great. Our courage is strong and our dreams for this beautiful country will never die" -Pierre Elliot Trudeau
if only 6 million out of 30 million that vote vote want to vote for the third party candidate, but only 3 million of 'em do. and say 10 million vote for one of the major candidates, and 17 million vote for the other major party candidate. take 3 million off that 17, add it to the 3 million already voting for the third party guy, and he still has 14 million votes. even with the FULL six million voting for the third party guy, he's not going to win.
you guys seem to be saying that everyone wants to vote third party and no one does. in reality, a HUGE number of people want to vote for one of the major candidates. that's just how it is. this isn't to say a third party candidate can never win, but it's unrealistic to say that all of them have any real chance.
------------------
kuru
'sex is one of the most beautiful and natural things that money can buy' - steve martin
------------------
"i was born without any nads, so i guess like, my kids wont have nads either" - Beavis
Metal/Electronic/Ambient etc..
< http://www.mp3.com/fatbitch >
Correct me if I'm wrong.
------------------
jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >
only done once by a kebler elf
------------------
Nuke em' till they glow and shoot em’ in the dark and let the computer sort em' out.
Then wait for a mutation…
------------------
"Our hopes are high. Our faith in the people is great. Our courage is strong and our dreams for this beautiful country will never die" -Pierre Elliot Trudeau
and i dunno about in canada, but here voter turnout is usually around 2/3 of the eligible population. about a century ago it was more often around 80\%, but that could have changed either a) because parties dont promote voting as much anymore, or b) because a lot of people could get away with voting more than once (where do you think the slogan "Vote early, vote often." came from?)
In Canada voter turn out has been traditionally around 76\%. In the last election (1997) it dropped to 69-70\%. There increasing voter cyncism developing in Canada, especially among the younger generations. Hopefully this election will show an increase in the numbers closer to the traditional rate.
------------------
"Our hopes are high. Our faith in the people is great. Our courage is strong and our dreams for this beautiful country will never die" -Pierre Elliot Trudeau
They have completely FUCKED UP this province.
(BC). Our health care is shit. They fucked up the major economy (forestry) spent many many many millions of dollars on Fast Ferries that don't work and they can't sell, Put us through a recession. If anybody I know votes NDP I am going to punch them in the teeth.
-edit
oh, dido, the reason most people don't bother to vote is because once the poll stations close in Ontario and Quebec, unless its a near 50-50 split, the election is decided. This is because we use a Representation by Population, and Ontario and Quebec have over half the population of Canada.
------------------
When my flying days are over, and my death has come to pass
I hope they bury me upside down, so the whole damn world can kiss my ass
This message has been edited by j0eSmith on November 01, 2000 at 07:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by j0eSmith:
oh, dido, the reason most people don't bother to vote is because once the poll stations close in Ontario and Quebec, unless its a near 50-50 split, the election is decided. This is because we use a Representation by Population, and Ontario and Quebec have over half the population of Canada.
That's the one thing that's nice about American government. We have a general dislike for federalism (we like the states having power). We like the idea of states deciding what will work best for that region of the country in a lot of circumstances. That's the reason for our civil war: besides slavery, the southern states didn't like bowing to the whim of the northern states that had most of the power. Being from the north, I'm glad we have one nation right now (by god, we'd be fuX0red if we had a Confederate States of America), but I understand the states' needs to decide fore each state what works best for them.
From the little I know of Canada, they seem to have a strong federal government, mostly centered around a couple of cities. The more policies set according to what would work for those cities, the less benefit makes it out to BC, and the extremities. I guess that if I were in Canada, I would vote for whatever party would offer less centralized government (much like I'm voting here in America... go BUSH!)
While Ontario and Quebec are the most populus provinces, our voter turn out rate has been very high traditionally. It is only in the last 10 years (2 elections) that it has been falling. The voters in other provinces are just as important to winning a majority government as Ontario and Quebec are. No party can depend on Quebec because of the Bloc Quebecois, and Ontario is tied up by the Liberals. Thus the other provinces are vital to winning a majority. People in Canada do vote in large numbers, the voter cyncism that is developing is caused by our electoral system (first-past-the-post) and would be helped if we went to a proportional representative system like they have in most European countries.
As for our federal system, decentralisation is not the answer. National statndards can not be kept if we decentralise. Having a "patch-work" of social programs will not work. Canadians will just end up moving to the province that offers the best programs. The federal system is vital to the Canadian way of life. Decentralisation will kill Canada as we know it. Now I know that a lot of Westerners believe that they are not heard at the federal level, and that can be true to an extent. Proportional representation would help to solve that problem.
As for the Canada "brain drain", what we Canadians like to call CAnadians who move to the states. It is greatly inflated by the parties who wish to cut taxes. The theory is that if taxes were low less Canadians would head to the states. Unfortuntely the jobs the Canadians are moving to the US to get are not offered in Canada. We have no silicon valley, we don't have a strong IT sector nor programming sector. Cutting taxes would not change this. And you are not considering all the American businesses that are moving to Canada. We don't have Americans flocking to Canada because our immigration policy accepts very few Americans. Mostly people form other continents (Europe, Middle East, Asia ect.) so an American brain drain can not be felt. Another thing is that most of the Canadians polled in the US want to come home. They miss our social programs, like health care and education.
Now I'm not dissing the many Americans on this board. I'm just pointing out that many American-Canadians are not happy in the States once they get there.
------------------
"Our hopes are high. Our faith in the people is great. Our courage is strong and our dreams for this beautiful country will never die" -Pierre Elliot Trudeau
- but from what I gather over in the US everyone is voting for this Nader guy, not 'cos he's all that brilliant but because the two main candidates suck donkeyballs. It's apathy really, we do it in the UK too. The system can get on my nerves sometimes, like when theres 3 boxes to choose from and they all sux0r? You pick the one opposite the guy/gal you don't like.Tell you what would have been good in the US?
Frank Zappa getting in as President. It would then be the COOLEST country in the known universe. He did try to run once, it's in his biography, but somehow he wasn't allowed to run for it. Which is a shame, 'cos he'd have probably got in. lol.
------------------
-- incubus
As I chase the leaves like the words I never find ...
Renton:Diane was right. The world is changing, music is changing, drugs are changing, even men and women are changing. One thousand years from now there'll be no guys and no girls, just wankers. Sounds great to me. It's just a pity that no one told Begbie.
------------------
-- incubus
As I chase the leaves like the words I never find ...
------------------
Just your generic meaningless signature. Mix with 2 quarts water and stir till evenly coated.