and then....
some brand name HP system
athlon processor @ 1.3 GHz
128 megs of ram
40 gig hd
cd-rw drive
monitor (15")
printer
speakers
windows xp
assorted software
cost: 999.91

someone elaborate on WHY IN THE BLUE HELL id want to pick that crappy mac with no monitor, over the HP.

just spec/cost wise... id go with the HP. even though its a HP, its a decent computer. just reformat the HD and flash the bios, and your set. heh

seriously though. mac owners are nuts.

------------------
Screw this crap, I've had it. I ain't no Mr. Cool.
< =rwa= >

------------------
Don't worry about the world ending today... It's already tomorrow in Australia. Unless you're in Australia... (then start worrying)

(I'm not pro-mac, or pro-win, or linux. Depends on what needs to be done.)

PLEASE don't start a mac/win/*nix debate. *sigh*

quote:

---

Originally posted by aletros:
PLEASE don't start a mac/win/*nix debate. *sigh*

---

Saying something like that on a forum like this is tantamount to waving a red flag in front of a bull.

Rhydant - you do have to consider what kind of video card was in the HP. It may have been some 4MB onboard piece of shit. Then again, Apple might just enjoy anally raping its loyal customers.

This is the reason why AMD is now doing the PR system with their new Athlon XP's. They label them as to what their PIV equivalent is (very conservatively, though). So an Athlon XP 1700+ is really like 1.5 Gigahertz (or something... I'm not sure on the actual speed of the chip).

Oops - back to the Mac.
I'm not a very big fan of them, but they are powerful graphics machines. Their processors do more work per cycle than most PC's, so they have a low MHZ rating, but they can crunch numbers like nobody's business. And if you think 񘓤 is expensive for a Mac, HAH!

Power Mac G4 - ū,499.00
Dual 800MHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 & 2MB L3 per processor
256MB SDRAM memory
80GB Ultra ATA drive
SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce2 MX w/TwinView
Gigabit Ethernet
56K internal modem

Imagine two of those Apple 22" LCD displays on the TwinView card.

Another thing about Macs is, when have you ever seen cases that beautiful (I'm talking about the newer Macs - G4, cube)?

Ah! One more thing. Compare apples to apples. If you're talking an HP system (a cheap system - some cheesy components), you should really be comparing to an iMac or something.

This message has been edited by miNus on October 15, 2001 at 06:56 AM

i may be mistaken.

oh, and every HP has an integrated video card at 4MB so yes... the video card sucks.

f00

edit: Yes, you are very mistaken. About everything and anything.

This message has been edited by miNus on October 15, 2001 at 11:18 AM

------------------
Net Syndrome - < www.netsyndrome.net >
Catch The Sickness

so THATS why i always see graphic creators using photoshop on macs instead of PCs. well damn.

thanks for the insight guys.

but im sticking with my PC.

------------------
Screw this crap, I've had it. I ain't no Mr. Cool.
< =rwa= >

And nobody mention SGI ok?

Walk yourself round any design studio and you'll know what I mean though. Macs are used everywhere for that kinda shit. They all use Quark, see

------------------
-- incubus
As I chase the leaves like the words I never find ...

quote:

---

That's like saying SGI's suck since they have a low processor speed in MHZ, and they're not worth money for what they do.

---

third post, second reply. I'd recommended reading, my friend.

------------------
Net Syndrome - < www.netsyndrome.net >
Catch The Sickness

1. No competition. Nobody else makes/ assembles a Mac. You can't piece together a Mac.
2. Lost of resources going into case design.
3. Proprietary technology, produced in smaller volumes, costing more in the end. An i815E chipset is cheaper because they sell more than the Apple chipsets. Economics of scale.
4. Coolness factor. People buy Macs because they look good or aren't Wintel machines... people are willing to pay more for that privelege.

------------------
Screw this crap, I've had it. I ain't no Mr. Cool.
< =rwa= >

quote:

---

Originally posted by a_macuser:
MACS COST MORE BECAUSE THEY ARE REAL COMPUTERS. SEE WINTEL CHIPS ARE NOT RISC SO THEY CANNOT DO GRAPHICS THEY HAVE TO EMULATE THEM. ALSO WINDOWS IS JUST A PRETTY FACE FOR DOS AND AS EVERYBODY KNOWS DOS IS A COMMAND LINE AND COMMAND LINES ARE ONLY TEXT AND CANT DO GRAPHICS. SO WINDOWS HAS TO EMULATE GRAPHICS AND AS EVERYBODY KNOWS EMULATORS ARE SLOW. ALSO WHEN YOU BUY A MAC YOU CAN WEAR A BLACK TURTLENECK AND DRIVE ONE OF THE NEW VOLKSWAGEN BUGS BECAUSE MAC PEOPLE ARE CREATIVE. PC USERS ARE ALL BRAINWASHED BY MICRO$OFT AND WILL BELIEVE ANYTHING BILL GATES TELLS THEM ANYONE WHO HAS A BRAIN WOULD BUY A MAC. PC PEOPLE ARE STUPID MORONS.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spydir:
sombody mentioned SGI's.

third post, second reply. I'd recommended reading, my friend.

---

No, you re-read my post.

I didn't say nobody had mentioned SGI, I was implying that if we rule SGI out, Macs are the main platform used for graphics & design.

f00.

Going back to the price issue, look at the shootout section of aapltalk.com. Interesting.

(misspelled shirley)

This message has been edited by 1LT on October 16, 2001 at 01:03 PM

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spydir:
would you like to try again, sir?

edit:

---

DICK!

"And nobody mention SGI, ok?" != "Nobody on this thread has mentioned SGI before".

It's taken out of context, go shove your head in a blender. GRR!

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1LT:
I was reading Keyboard magazine fairly regularly a couple years ago and it seems that a majority of the people they interviewed used macs. An example: Soon after Garbage released Version 2.0, the did an interview with them on their studio. The cover had Shirley Manson holding one of the 22 inch studio displays.

---

"Look, Ma. The slut's holding an LCD panel."
All those who care, please raise your hands.
(Opens fire)
Thank you.

quote:

---

Going back to the price issue, look at the shootout section of aapltalk.com. Interesting.

---

Oh my fucking god - that's some hilarious shit. Take a look at his warped explainations as to how Macs are "better" in every aspect - that is, when he gives a reason at all.

quote:

---

Originally posted by incubus:
I didn't say nobody had mentioned SGI, I was implying that if we rule SGI out, Macs are the main platform used for graphics & design.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by incubus:
Mac-haters aside, macs are the machine of choice for graphic designers. That's the way it is.

And nobody mention SGI ok?

Walk yourself round any design studio and you'll know what I mean though. Macs are used everywhere for that kinda shit. They all use Quark, see

---

That's funny... I don't see anything about...

quote:

---

"Nobody on this thread has mentioned SGI before".

---

I DEE WIEEENNNNNEEEEERRRRRRR!!!!!!!!

------------------
Net Syndrome - < www.netsyndrome.net >
Catch The Sickness

quote:

---

Originally posted by miNus:
Just.... don't talk.

f00

edit: Yes, you are very mistaken. About everything and anything.

---

such a sad existence for some people..

quote:

---

Originally posted by The_Stomper:
This "friend" of yours. Was he abused as a child? That's the biggest load of bullshit I've seen in my life (with the possible exception of the entire site < BareFeats.com >)

---

I think I'll let my friend reply to that.

quote:

---

So sayeth a_macuser :
NO STOMPER BUT MAYBE YOU WERE???? BECAUSE YOU SEEM TO HAVE SOME SORT OF INSECURITY OR SOMETHING YOU CAN'T JUST ADMIT THAT MACS ARE JUST BETTER. OR MAYBE YOU'RE ASHAMED OF YOUR PENIS. SEE PC PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS BRAGGING ABOUT MHZ BUT MHZ IS JUST ANOTHER BRAINWASHING LIE BY WINTEL THAT STUPID PEOPLE BELIEVE. I LOOKED AT THAT BAREFEAT.COM SITE AND ISN'T IT AMAZING THAT A G4 833MHZ IS AS FAST AS A 1.6GHZ P4??? DAMIEN IS BUGGING ME BECAUSE HE HAS SOME THINGS TO SAY ABOUT THE QUAKE 3 TESTS SO I'LL LET HIM TALK.

---

Er, the fact that the G4 and the P4 got *exactly* the same score at 640x480, and very close at 1024x768, tells me that both CPU's are flooding the video controller's memory bandwidth, which renders these tests meaningless. I could hook up ancient SCSI hard drive to a 200MHz Pentium and a 1.5GHz Athlon and I'd get the same transfer rates - would that convince you that an Athlon is no faster than a Pentium?

quote:

---

SEE DAMIEN AT LEAST KNOWS THE TRUTH ABOUT MHZ. INTEL AND ATHLON CHIPS RUN AT HIGHER MHZ BUT THEY DONT DO MUCH WITH IT OBVIOUSLY IF THE ATHLON IS NO FASTER THAN A PENTIUM. HE IS USUALLY A LEVEL-HEADED GUY BUT EVEN HE STILL THINKS PCS ARE BETTER AND CANT ADMIT THAT MACS ARE BETTER BECAUSE HE'S BEEN BRAINWASHED. ITS REALLY KIND OF SAD I FEEL SORRY FOR ALL YOU WINTEL PEOPLE!!!!!

AND STOMPER I'M GOING TO GET YOU. I'M A BETTER HACKER THAN ANY OF YOU PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD WHICH SHOULD BE OBVIOUS BECAUSE MACS ARE BETTER AT NETWORKING.

---

This message has been edited by damien_s_lucifer on October 16, 2001 at 07:25 PM

quote:

---

Originally posted by [liquid] meta:
Also 733*4 (i believe their processor speeds are 4x standard windows speeds) is 2932 mhz

i may be mistaken.

---

NO! Why would you say some stupid shit like that? And what the hell is "windows speeds"? The way to find the relative power of a processor IS AS FOLLOWS: Megahertz (which is a measure of frequency) X instructions per cycle (which tells you how much the proccesor accomplishes per hert)!!! This tells you the amount of instructions that a processor performs per second. Now you also have to take into account the size of instructions that a processor can handle, and general architecture differences. So you can't just multiply 2 x 2 and get 4. Mkay?

Please, PLEASE PLEASE people, don't talk out of your asses!

Thank you,
buh bye

This message has been edited by miNus on October 16, 2001 at 07:41 PM

quote:

---

Originally posted by incubus:

And nobody mention SGI ok?

---

quote:

---

Orginally posted by incubus:
I didn't say nobody had mentioned SGI...

---

would you like to try again, sir?

edit:

------------------
Net Syndrome - < www.netsyndrome.net >
Catch The Sickness

This message has been edited by Spydir on October 16, 2001 at 12:15 PM

quote:

---

Originally posted by damien_s_lucifer:

Originally posted by a_macuser:
MACS COST MORE BECAUSE THEY ARE REAL COMPUTERS. SEE WINTEL CHIPS ARE NOT RISC SO THEY CANNOT DO GRAPHICS THEY HAVE TO EMULATE THEM. ALSO WINDOWS IS JUST A PRETTY FACE FOR DOS AND AS EVERYBODY KNOWS DOS IS A COMMAND LINE AND COMMAND LINES ARE ONLY TEXT AND CANT DO GRAPHICS. SO WINDOWS HAS TO EMULATE GRAPHICS AND AS EVERYBODY KNOWS EMULATORS ARE SLOW. ALSO WHEN YOU BUY A MAC YOU CAN WEAR A BLACK TURTLENECK AND DRIVE ONE OF THE NEW VOLKSWAGEN BUGS BECAUSE MAC PEOPLE ARE CREATIVE. PC USERS ARE ALL BRAINWASHED BY MICRO$OFT AND WILL BELIEVE ANYTHING BILL GATES TELLS THEM ANYONE WHO HAS A BRAIN WOULD BUY A MAC. PC PEOPLE ARE STUPID MORONS.

---

This "friend" of yours. Was he abused as a child? That's the biggest load of bullshit I've seen in my life (with the possible exception of the entire site < BareFeats.com >)

This message has been edited by The_Stomper on October 16, 2001 at 12:41 PM

then the mac owner would still make up some buullshit like "well the mac would fall at a faster rate though!"

------------------
simultaneity is not absolute. So just because you think i'm wrong, from my frame of reference i'm right!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dark Knight Bob:
also you feeel no pain when you see a mac smash into pieces after falling out of a 10 storey building.

then the mac owner would still make up some buullshit like "well the mac would fall at a faster rate though!"

---

Finally - a practical application of those fruity-shaped cases! Lower wind resistance!

quote:

---

So sayeth the Mac-User:
NO STOMPER BUT MAYBE YOU WERE???? BECAUSE YOU SEEM TO HAVE SOME SORT OF INSECURITY OR SOMETHING YOU CAN'T JUST ADMIT THAT MACS ARE JUST BETTER.

---

Actually, my childhood was fairly non-traumatic, with the exception of having to use an Apple II until the age of 5. And why will I "admit that Macs are better" when they aren't necessarily?

quote:

---

OR MAYBE YOU'RE ASHAMED OF YOUR PENIS.

---

Now there's a mature argument. No, I'm not ashamed of my monstrous manhood.

quote:

---

SEE PC PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS BRAGGING ABOUT MHZ BUT MHZ IS JUST ANOTHER BRAINWASHING LIE BY WINTEL THAT STUPID PEOPLE BELIEVE.

---

Allow me to explain something to you. The only PC people that "always bragging about MHz" are the ones talking directly out of their ass. Anyone who knows shit about system architecture knows that a faster processor does not necessarily a faster system make.

quote:

---

I LOOKED AT THAT BAREFEAT.COM SITE AND ISN'T IT AMAZING THAT A G4 833MHZ IS AS FAST AS A 1.6GHZ P4??? DAMIEN IS BUGGING ME BECAUSE HE HAS SOME THINGS TO SAY ABOUT THE QUAKE 3 TESTS SO I'LL LET HIM TALK.

---

Thank you, damien, for stating what I was about to. I'd like to add that I'm not surprised that a G4 800MP (read the article next time!) is "as fast as" a P4 1.6 - the P4 sucks. Now, if you whip out a Thunderbird or Palomino-based chip clocked up to 1.6 GHz, you'll see - the same damn thing, because the video card's memory bus can only handle so much! You could probably drop the CPU speed and get the same result. In raw CPU tests, the G4 800MP should be raping BOTH of those CPUs by a large margin.

quote:

---

SEE DAMIEN AT LEAST KNOWS THE TRUTH ABOUT MHZ. INTEL AND ATHLON CHIPS RUN AT HIGHER MHZ BUT THEY DONT DO MUCH WITH IT OBVIOUSLY IF THE ATHLON IS NO FASTER THAN A PENTIUM.

---

You pompus ass. Obviously you don't know anything about AMD vs Intel CPU architechtures, or you wouldn't be claiming that "Athlon is no faster than a Pentium".

quote:

---

HE IS USUALLY A LEVEL-HEADED GUY BUT EVEN HE STILL THINKS PCS ARE BETTER AND CANT ADMIT THAT MACS ARE BETTER BECAUSE HE'S BEEN BRAINWASHED. ITS REALLY KIND OF SAD I FEEL SORRY FOR ALL YOU WINTEL PEOPLE!!!!!

---

Brainwashed? We're brainwashed, and you're the one who spouts illogical propaganda? Damien's argument makes perfect sense - obviously it just went right over your head.

quote:

---

AND STOMPER I'M GOING TO GET YOU. I'M A BETTER HACKER THAN ANY OF YOU PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD WHICH SHOULD BE OBVIOUS BECAUSE MACS ARE BETTER AT NETWORKING.

---

I won't even bother to start with this. I'm behind five hardware firewall systems, a ridiculous number of software measures - and that's before the CAT5 even comes near my system. And all of the above are watched by dozens of n3rd0rs with nothing better to do than run complete traces on any offending IPs. These are the kind of guys who publicly and frequently wear the "Scan my network and die." shirts and such from < ThinkGeek >. So please - bring it.

And one more thing that PCs have over Macs -an easy-to-find Caps Lock key.

quote:

---

Earlier posted by aletros in futility:
PLEASE don't start a mac/win/*nix debate. *sigh*

---

This message has been edited by The_Stomper on October 17, 2001 at 10:14 AM

quote:

---

Originally posted by The_Stomper:
I won't even bother to start with this. I'm behind five hardware firewall systems

---

I am ub3r l33t - just check out my three-rule-firewall :

IPCHAINS -P INPUT DENY
IPCHAINS -P OUTPUT DENY
IPCHAINS -P FORWARD DENY

I AM UBER LEET NO-ONE CAN HACK ME!!!!1

<g>

5 firewalls? with all due respect, wtf?!?

This message has been edited by incubus on October 17, 2001 at 10:49 AM

------------------
"Marla said that she might die at any moment, and the only tragedy is that she didn't"--fight club
please feel free to ignore anything i happen to incoherently utter, because, yes, i am a pompus ass.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rhydant:
why does he talk in all caps?

---

Because either:

• he's an idiot whose drool shorted out the Caps Lock key,
  
• he's a troll who's stringing y'all on thru damien 'cause he's afraid if he registers on this board someone will h4x0r his iMac,
  
• damien's mind finally fractured, and two of his personalities are fighting for dominance, or
  
• damien is having a grand old time stringing y'all on.
  

Just a thought.

<edit> the grammar police threatened me </edit>

This message has been edited by Jynx on October 17, 2001 at 03:54 PM

damien's friend == damien

Gawd.

No offense if you're just slow Stomper

I *do* have a friend who acts like that, though... 'cause he can't admit he made a mistake when he bought his Blueberry G3.

He never uses it because he can't get any cool software. I tried to warn him...

G3... what do those look like? The cases I mean?

edit: Is it something like this?

The reason I ask is that I've always wanted to put a PC in a Mac case *evil grin*

Do you think he'd be willing to part with the case if he doesn't use it?

This message has been edited by miNus on October 17, 2001 at 05:25 PM

Plus ...

quote:

---

DAMIEN IS BUGGING ME BECAUSE HE HAS SOME THINGS TO SAY ABOUT THE QUAKE 3 TESTS SO I'LL LET HIM TALK.

---

Now, I don't know much about you, damien, but I know that you would never let such a total wanker near your keyboard. That is, if he would touch it, because it would be an EVIL PEECEE KEYBOARD.

But all in all, very good emulation job, damien. Too bad these guys had to blow your cover publicly - I was having fun burning the "mac user"

quote:

---

Originally posted by The_Stomper:
Now, I don't know much about you, damien, but I know that you would [b]never let such a total wanker near your keyboard.[/B]

---

Thanks for the compliment And you are totally correct, sir.

My favorite quote :

quote:

---

ALSO WHEN YOU BUY A MAC YOU CAN WEAR A BLACK TURTLENECK AND DRIVE ONE OF THE NEW VOLKSWAGEN BUGS BECAUSE MAC PEOPLE ARE CREATIVE.

---

The "Mac people are creative" line is something some idiot tried to pull on me once... he was basically saying that PC users can't be creative, because PCs require you to "use the logical side of your brain."

But to be fair, I should mention that the two Mac users in my office are the ones I'm happiest to support. They're the two most self-sufficient people there and both of them like Macs simply because they're not as complicated as PCs. Neither of them is a Mac zealot though - my boss *loves* his G4, but he freely admits he'd rather have Win2K or Linux running a server. MacOS may lack a lot of the supa-1337 features Win2K has, but it *does* have a simpler, more straightforward design. It runs word processors, spreadsheets, and Web browsers, which is all most people want computers for anyway.

I'm not saying *I* would run it, of course. I am an admitted Unix fiend. But I can see why some people would like MacOS.

Is anyone out there running OS X? If so, can you tell me how the fuck I start /bin/sh... and please, PLEASE tell me a lot of OS X programs support command line switches!!!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by damien_s_lucifer:
The "Mac people are creative" line is something some idiot tried to pull on me once... he was basically saying that PC users can't be creative, because PCs require you to "use the logical side of your brain."

---

Actually, the VW bug thing has a bit of Mac-esqe logic to it:

Macs:
- Fruity colours
- "Gay"
- Overemphasis on "curves"
- Performance sucks (until "hotrodded" with BeOS)

VW Bugs:
- Fruity colours
- "Gay"
- Overemphasis on "curves"
- Performance sucks (until total engine replacement)

See what I mean here?

quote:

---

But to be fair, I should mention that the two Mac users in my office are the ones I'm happiest to support. They're the two most self-sufficient people there and both of them like Macs simply because they're not as complicated as PCs.

---

And I will admit that as well. If they'd been less expensive, I would definitely have bought a Mac for my technically uninclined father.

quote:

---

Neither of them is a Mac zealot though - my boss *loves* his G4, but he freely admits he'd rather have Win2K or Linux running a server. MacOS may lack a lot of the supa-1337 features Win2K has, but it *does* have a simpler, more straightforward design. It runs word processors, spreadsheets, and Web browsers, which is all most people want computers for anyway.

---

But running MacOS for any kind of "security" is equivalent to running naked backwards through a cornfield. What really pisses me off is the amount of utterly stupid propaganda that Apple spouts. At least PC enthusiasts can spout benchmarks and figures instead of bullshit.

quote:

---

I'm not saying *I* would run it, of course. I am an admitted Unix fiend. But I can see why some people would like MacOS.

---

It all depends on the need, really.

quote:

---

Is anyone out there running OS X? If so, can you tell me how the fuck I start /bin/sh... and please, PLEASE tell me a lot of OS X programs support command line switches!!!!

---

No idea. I wouldn't touch OSX with a ten-foot pole. Maybe a three-foot titanium-core baseball bat ... but not a ten-foot pole.

quote:

---

so you cant buy parts and build yourself a mac? then how do you upgrade?! buy another machine? crikey!

---

See, that's the thing. Only Mac makes Mac shit. It's kinda like if Intel was the only windows manfacturer. You either buy a Intel machine, or you don't use windows. Which is a shame, because I really like some of the video production/graphic advantages that macs have, but they're too damn expensive.

------------------
Net Syndrome - < www.netsyndrome.net >
Catch The Sickness

quote:

---

Originally posted by damien_s_lucifer:
Is anyone out there running OS X? If so, can you tell me how the fuck I start /bin/sh... and please, PLEASE tell me a lot of OS X programs support command line switches!!!!

---

Look over here!!!
I have 2 G4s running MacOS X Server 10.0.4 (10.1 update is on its way) and on iBook SE Firewire with Puma 5G24.

To change the shell of a user, go in Netinfo Manager.app (in /Applications/Utilities) and you should find somewhere the key you want. bash was included in MacOS X Server 1.2, but is missing in OS X 10.x

You can also go in text-mode at the login screen by typing '>console'. It's not really text-mode, but a frame-buffer...

------------------
#define QUESTION (2b)| |!(2b)

chmod, the "creative" comment is a joke. No point arguing with it

I've always wanted a P-mac

quote:

---

Originally posted by damien_s_lucifer:
Thank you blanalex!!! I assume you can find a bash binary for OS X? And does OS X come with GCC or something similar?

---

You could check on versiontracker.com, somebody might alreade have made a package. If not, install the developers CD that came in your box of OS X (I assume that you bought, right?) and you should have some GNU utilities and a command-line compiler. It's called 'cc' instead of 'gcc'.

------------------
#define QUESTION (2b)| |!(2b)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spydir:
you can buy mac hardware. When I used to get J&R's catolog bullshit they had a whole section devoted to it.

---

True, but like I said, it's all produced by the same company.

------------------
10 PRINT "HOME"
20 PRINT "SWEET"
30 GOTO 10

iFish. Tank different.

quote:

---

ALSO WHEN YOU BUY A MAC YOU CAN WEAR A BLACK TURTLENECK AND DRIVE ONE OF THE NEW VOLKSWAGEN BUGS BECAUSE MAC PEOPLE ARE CREATIVE.

---

How does USING a computer that looks different make you creative? 'Wow, I can pick out my favorite color, I am creative.' If you DESIGNED it yourself, or something like that, then it's creativity.

G3 (or G4 if I can get ahold of one) case.
Cut out the Apple logo and put a plexiglass window with the AMD logo etched (sandblasted) out of it. Watercooled computer with < dye lite > in the water, lit by a black light. The dye lite I like is the clear unlit, bright blue lit.

Dye lite w/o black light:

Dye lite w/ black light:

Check out that link for more pictures.

Anyway, that is my dream... A true power mac.

------------------
"Take a cable and simulate a sex act on each end. Press some combonation of play and record buttons." - askheaves

This message has been edited by miNus on October 19, 2001 at 06:36 AM

First.. yes Macs apply to ATX standard, but the face plate for the connectors aren't the same, so it's kinda hard to put a PC in a Mac case, although some persons did it (and put a Mac in a PC case also).

Second : MacOS X is a true Unix, bash as been compiled (as X-Free, and many other Open Source stuff). A good reference for those is osx.forked.net

Third : I just want to make Mac bashers think a bit... are Macs really what you think they are? I mean.. I've got a stock pile of CDs arround here.. all for Macs. I've never been in need for a software.. except some Micro$oft stuff only for PCs (Access, VB) for school stuff.. but most people don't want to use that Also.. the creativity part... Apple made some real kewl software for video editing.. I'm talking about iMovie and Final Cut Pro. For most professionnals.. this justify the buy of a 2x800Mhz G4 with 1.5Gb RAM and the 1000$ Final Cut Pro. I know some Mac users will talk shit and say PC sucks without knowing a damn about computers.. but I'd say that is a really visible minority.. like most of you would say that it is a minority that love M$ products and live by it..

That was my points.. hope I'm not hitting hard on anybody.. and I hope I won't get flamed also..

Oh, and you can buy mac hardware from people who aren't apple. IBM's making some g4 based systems and a bunch of companies produce hardware for mac's. But still, I'm not buying a mac anytime soon... I'd rather use the 4000 to upgrade my current systems, and use the remaining 2000 or so to get a nice stereo system...

------------------
Net Syndrome - < www.netsyndrome.net >
Catch The Sickness

Haha. Enjoy.

------------------

quote:

---

Originally posted by RenegadeSnark:
If you have a problem with the average IQ around here, don't do things to lower it.

---

I'm really enjoying MacOS X 10.1.. few problems, about as fast as MacOS 9, but don't have to reboot once every 1-2 days.. (even if I saw Macs running for 60days).

The joys of Unix with the simplicity of a Mac.. yeah.. it really is it

If you guys have other questions about Macs.. just ask.

BTW.. there is Macs below 1000$ US, but they have a 15" screen (unfortunatly).. I hope that will get fixed.. soon!

This message has been edited by The_Stomper on October 24, 2001 at 08:36 PM

quote:

---

Originally posted by miNus:
This is my plan:

G3 (or G4 if I can get ahold of one) case.
Cut out the Apple logo and put a plexiglass window with the AMD logo etched (sandblasted) out of it. Watercooled computer with < dye lite > in the water, lit by a black light. The dye lite I like is the clear unlit, bright blue lit.

Dye lite w/o black light:

Dye lite w/ black light:

Check out that link for more pictures.

Anyway, that is my dream... A true power mac.

---

*Drool* I want one. No, I want two.

Looks like it's time for me to spend some quality time with Mr. Dremel Bit and some Dye-Lite ...

1.2 GHz Athlon
FIC AD11
512MB DDR PC2100
40GB Western Digital ATA100
geForce2 Pro
1000W 3-piece speakers
Mistumi CR4804-TE (the burner that 0wnz j00)

so my price range is whatever I could sell that for. 񘈨 USD (assuming I find a willing lam0r)

I seriously doubt I could find anything l33t enough to justify selling my b0x0r.

quote:

---

Originally posted by The_Stomper:
1000W 3-piece speakers

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???

quote:

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Originally posted by veistran:
I'd guess he meant 100W, and just was a little overenthusiastic with the zero key.

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Your guess is wrong - they actually are 1000W. The lights in my room dim when I turn them up past halfway. And I love playing Counter-Strike with those. Who needs to wallhack when you can hear footsteps from across the map?

--OR--

you have some of those crap "xxx watt" speakers they sell from the smaller local computer stores.

How much did you pay for said speakers/what brand are they?

Yes, 1000W total unfortunately. 1000W per channel *drool* now that would 0wn.

Back to the original question - can anyone give me a convincing reason to switch to a Mac that I could get for that much/little?

Also, memory and speakers does'nt count, except if you buy a brand new G4, they are "all digital" and need USB speakers.. they sell those machines with harmon cardon stuff.. and this stuff rocks But there may be a way to plug those things to it (buy a Sound Blaster or adapter or I don't know.. I haven't got much news from those G4s, except what's new

I heard someone pluggued 2 VGA monitors to a stock G4.. that's nice

Anyways..

edit : typo + corrected something

This message has been edited by drizzt on October 28, 2001 at 03:12 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by ASCIIMan:
贘 = crap

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exactly, and am I the only one that thinks of little man syndrome when people refer to total wattage?

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Veistran
- Sarcasm is just one more of the free services that we offer.

quote:

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Originally posted by drizzt:
Well.. if you think about selling used to get a "new" Mac.. you'll never get something as good. If you'd go buy a PC, you'd get something cheap also. But I doubt all this stuff, new, would be 1000$.

Also, memory and speakers does'nt count, except if you buy a brand new G4, they are "all digital" and need USB speakers.. they sell those machines with harmon cardon stuff.. and this stuff rocks But there may be a way to plug those things to it (buy a Sound Blaster or adapter or I don't know.. I haven't got much news from those G4s, except what's new

I heard someone pluggued 2 VGA monitors to a stock G4.. that's nice

Anyways..

edit : typo + corrected something

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bob, you should learn how to write in english

you didn't answer the question here, think US prices, not canadian. although you're right about comparing the price of a new computer versus a used one.

i quickly checked the prices on store.apple.com and lowest price you can get on a G4 (to be able to compare performance-wise with the Athlon) is 1700$, without display.

Small hint here: don't buy memory upgrades from Apple, they charge 100$US for an extra 128mb of PC133 when i can get a single 256mb DIMM for 43$ CANADIAN!!! the same for the hard drive, simply buy yourself a standard ATA-66 HD (as far as i know, G4's don't support ATA-100 yet)

The harman/kardon digital speakers are great... for 1" drivers! and they don't include a subwoofer... at least the good old analog 1/8" jack plug is still there

On the plus side, at 1700$US, you get a G4 733, which should be as fast as a AthlonXP 1700+, you get Gigabit ethernet, you get FireWire, you get a cd-burner (12x10x32x), a 56k modem, you get 2 legit OS (MacOS 9.2.1 & MacOS X 10.1) and sexy case to put back a PC together because you miss windows too much

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#define QUESTION (2b)| |!(2b)

This message has been edited by blanalex on October 28, 2001 at 06:59 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by ASCIIMan:
贘 = crap

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Maybe your 贘 speakers, man, but not mine. Since you're not here to experience the crisp, clear treble and rich thundering bass, you'll just have to imagine my entire residence floor shaking to whatever damn beat I choose.

Seriously, though, I would like to know what brand your speakers are. If they really are that good, I'd like to buy some to replace my Cambridge DTT2500s, which suck complete ass in terms of sound quality.

edit - That reminds me, you mentioned the "crisp, clear" treble, and the "thundering" bass (ie, crap, the bass should be crisp, too), but you never mentioned the midrange. I'm guessing that, like most computer speakers + sub combos out there nowadays, there isn't any midrange to speak of -- am I correct in thinking this is the case with your speakers?

This message has been edited by ASCIIMan on October 28, 2001 at 09:05 PM

quote:

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Originally spewed by a friend who was too lazy to register:
hahahhahahahahhahahah
1000watt, funny. prove it. oh wait, you must not be able to otherwise you would have by now.

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I think he summed it up well.

edit: I cannot type

This message has been edited by veistran on October 28, 2001 at 09:12 PM

They're great for what I use them for. Movies, CS, and loud MP3s.

If my Cambridges happen to be better than your speakers, I'm sorry for you. Honestly.

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simultaneity is not absolute. So just because you think i'm wrong, from my frame of reference i'm right!

that's too much Simpsons and MacNN Forums for me.. but I'm addicted!

As Blanalex said.. there are good tricks on the Mac too.. you just have to look at the good places to find the good stuff.

Btw.. the speed of a 500Mhz G4 still amazes me..

Personally I think it's a load of bull. Anyone remember that project the one company tried with clocking a G4 up to 1000+? They started baking inside the fruity-coloured cases.

< Here's > a swank case.

*bows*

And they are faster clock-per-clock than a G4, P4, and K7

But still.. we have to wait and see....

G4 was a good CPU..

now it's getting old.. and replaced..

At leats we are not on a 20+ years old technology :P

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Veistran
- Sarcasm is just one more of the free services that we offer.

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Oh and by the way, if you see your mum this weekend, be sure to tell her SATAN!!! - Orbital

Sometimes it's good to throw away what you've done and start over...

quote:

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Originally posted by Dark Knight Bob:
i've got my network running off an abacus the ping is incredible i managed to clock it down to 5years for a kilobit the other day

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OMG! Are you planning on writing a book on how to get such amazing performance?

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Oh and by the way, if you see your mum this weekend, be sure to tell her SATAN!!! - Orbital

Anyways... the 4004 is 30 years old today..
< www.slashdot.org >

quote:

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Originally posted by HeartGabriel:
People here need to be quiet and be dead silent about things they know nothing about.

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If that were true then this would be quite a dull forum...

They "thrased" the developpement of it (DayStar was announcing Mac Clones with 68050 at that time), and they got out the PowerPC, all revamped..