Topic: Condom Debate
started by: Chrissy
Im not a fan of taking birth control pills (thou I really should be on them) so my boyfriend and I tend to use condoms. We are thinking about switching to the polyurathene ones (something about putting a liquid you coat a hardwood floor with in my twat is just unapplealing). I was wondering if anyone has tried them. I want some reactions. I've heard mixed results and I was wondering if you people think they are safe, if they feel good etc
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"The causes we know everything about depend on the causes we know nothing about, which depend on the causes we know absolutely nothing about."- Tom Stoppard
*sniff*
Hell, I'd attach a lead weight to my sack at this point if it were the price I had to pay. Otherwise, I hate condoms.
It's not a big deal to me. I certainly don't want a little jim running around!
I feel all around safer that way, and I still get off, so no problems here.
We just use regular old Trojan's or Lifestyles. I think they are latex.
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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >
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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >
Just thought I'd find something to brag about. 
I was just wondering if anyone had tried these- they are trojan brand I know that Ive seen them. My friend told me that they transfer heat and that its much more pleasurable for the guy. But I read the back of the package and it says they are still doing tests on whether or not they can get you pregnant, since im not worried about diseases (seeing as my bf is practically a virgin)thats my main concern.
I'm worried even when we use condoms...perhaps I should see the doctor-
anyway- any thoughts would be great
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"The causes we know everything about depend on the causes we know nothing about, which depend on the causes we know absolutely nothing about."- Tom Stoppard
they also have bigger pores than latex and are not as good a protector against disease.
most of the stuff i've read suggests that they're really best used by people who are allergic to latex.
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
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It's not that you're wrong, it's just that i'm right!
quote:
Originally posted by CatKnight:
you could also get thoes pills that you take after sex. i forgot what they are called, they are for like, if the condom breaks. they only have a 70\% chance of working, but you can take it up to 3 days after sex or something like that.
yeah but the longer you leave it after sex the higher the risk of pregnancy and they shouldnt be considered as a frequent contraceptive. the clue is in the words "emergency contraceptive" and theres not much difference between them and the bog standard pill. they're just a higher dosage
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It's not that you're wrong, it's just that i'm right!
puking, irritability, tiredness, hot flashes. they're only effective within 72 hours, and only if you aren't already pregnant.
so yeah, they're ok if you need them once when it's an emergency, but not all the time. you can't dose on estrogen like that.
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
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Hey DKB shut up ya crazy foo!
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Hey DKB shut up ya crazy foo!
Gotta stop venting on the past...
Heh heh heh. Works every time.
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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >
the pill causes weight gain; hence the bigger boobies.
and, it increases the risk of cancer for women with a family history of cancer.
it does regulate an irregular cycle, but for me, the side effects and potential risks just don't outweigh the benefit (since the benefit can be achieved through means that don't mean hormonally altering my body).
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
Im not sure if I want to be on the pill- my cycle is regular(painful but regular) and the pain I can control by taking advil or something.(which I hate doing but I do it if I have to) So the pain would be the only reason for me to take it.
As far as EC is concerned- I hope to never have to use it. I feel bad for anyone who has to make a decision about abortion/adoption or about someone elses life in general *shrug* part of me wants to not have sex just for that reason
You think the benefits outweight the risk?
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"The causes we know everything about depend on the causes we know nothing about, which depend on the causes we know absolutely nothing about."- Tom Stoppard
quote:
Originally posted by kuru:
those 'pills you take after sex' are nothing more than birth control pills. i had to take 'em once.
Ha! My g/f had to do that the first time we had sex. I went to go take my condom off and was like... ??? "Hmmmmmm where did it go?? So after turning the bedroom upside down, we finally decided it broke off and was inside her. Poor thing had to go to the Vag doctor the next day and have HIM pull it out for her.... Ha!
So he had her do the ole morning after thing with her pill.
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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >
quote:
Originally posted by Chrissy:
I was just wondering if anyone thought that those condoms were a good idea.
Im not sure if I want to be on the pill.
Condoms are great for protecting against dissease. If you're having 1 month or shorter relationships, or long intervals between relationships... condoms are a great. They're 99\% effective... so you're covered for your first 100! Just ALWAY ALWAY ALWAY keep the morning after pill in your night stand in-case of an ACCIDENT (only about ์ at Planned Parenthood... get some O dat...).
For a more committed long lasting relationship, the pill is a better idea. Mostly for the sake of convinience so you don't go through a case of condoms every month! Also, once you've gotten to know your MAN better, you should know what disseases he does (or doesn't have) and accept the risks and responsibilities of unprotected sex with him.
Now, the "the" in "the pill" can be deciving. Last I heard there's 8 different kinds... all with their own way of working and own side effects. If one doesn't suit you... try another! Just talk to your gyno-doc and see what works for you.
Hope that helps!
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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >
Honestly the real reason why I havent gone is because 1. Im a little nervous they might find something wrong with me 2. I dont have health insurance right now (even though I work)
Im thinking if I get my insurance soon (which isnt likely but maybe) I'll go and start myself on one of the many pills they have to offer these days.
*sigh* I just have so much shit on my mind right now that whole sex/condom/pill/gyno thing is the last of it--
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"I ated the purple berries...they tasted like burning"
the increase of estrogen in the female body produces more fat cells, because gernerally (and evolutionally) women have more fatty cells then men. Although if the pills are "made right" they might target more of an increase of estrogen to sexual organs, so yeah... boobies'll get bigger before belly . Saw that on TLC, you all should watch valentines day, they're having a special on all this stuff
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Spydir Web - spydirweb@techie.com
Core Arctic - < http://welcome.to/CoreArctic/ >
about the condom effectiveness rate, *each* condom has a 99\% effectiveness rate. it's not like 'well, 99 times you're ok and the 100th time is a dud.'
same concept as 'flip a coin 99 times, it's heads..... what'll it be on the 100th?' it doesn't matter which time it is, or when you started counting, the odds are 50/50.
*shrug*
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
quote:
kuru said -
same concept as 'flip a coin 99 times, it's heads..... what'll it be on the 100th?' it doesn't matter which time it is, or when you started counting, the odds are 50/50.
no way!! <bobby busha voice (from Waterboy)> my-my-my momma told me if yo-yo-you flip a coin a hun-der-add times the Fairy Aligata'll get angarey beeee-cuz its got so many teeth</bobby busha voice (from Waterboy)>
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Spydir Web - spydirweb@techie.com
Core Arctic - < http://welcome.to/CoreArctic/ >
quote:
Originally posted by kuru:
same concept as 'flip a coin 99 times, it's heads..... what'll it be on the 100th?' it doesn't matter which time it is, or when you started counting, the odds are 50/50.
Ok, now that's retarted logic. And if I have to explain WHY... then YOU'RE retarted! (well I guess I will anyway)
99\% means that out of 100 times only 1 should fail. The chance that ANY condom brakes is 1 to 100. Of course with a randomized timer, the AVERAGE person will use AROUND 100 effectively before one breaks. If it happens your 25th time: Chances say that it won't happen again any time soon! My point is it's like rolling a die with 100 sides and one side has a big explosion symbol on it. NOT LIKE FLIPPING A COIN!
Remember theirs other factors involved... size of the guy, how "hard" you're going at it, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by kuru:
i dunno about that vag doctor
Actually, that happens all the time...
I don't know the feel a womans insides ( 
) but as far as I've heard, some people have some pretty deep corners in there... and can even get toxic-shock-sydrom if they don't fish it out...
quote:
Originally posted Chissy:
1. Im a little nervous they might find something wrong with me 2. I dont have health insurance right now (even though I work)
1) Would you rather find something wrong and get it fixed... or not know and let it slowly get worse? Mabey eventually cause cervical cancer... serility...
2) You could go with the Depo-shot! It's one a month and isn't all that expensive.
EDIT: BTW, good to have you back Chrissy!
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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >
This message has been edited by PersonGuy on February 09, 2001 at 09:29 PM
2) a 1 in 100 chance does not mean that 'on the hundredth time, it will fail'
3) the depo shot is still a hormone
4) i'd rather live a happy life and die inexplicably than know i had cancer and spend a lot of time thinking about how i've got a death sentence.
* kuru deposits $.08 (2 cents for each thought)
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
2) that's why I said, "it's like rolling a die with 100 sides"... and I even said it COULD happen on the 25th time...
3) she was worried about no insurance, so I gave a CHEAPER option
4) 85\% of cancers ARE curable, ESPECIALLY when they're caught early. So getting regular check-ups, and not avoiding doctors (cause you don't want to hear the veuge possiblility that you're a terminal patient) is still a better way to go.
* More like took Ũ.08 by waisting my time. Your posts were thoughtless, and pointless... or it might be the coffee talking...
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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >
often just as bad as the disease.
and the price of depo is irrelevant if the price of the DOCTOR VISITS is unaffordable.
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
And they have a "home-kit" for depo now... and even if it's STILL a bad choice, we've only exausted 2 of 8 options... sheeesh... I'm not perscribing anything! I'm just showing that there's a lot more possiblities than she's admitting to hereself.
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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >
This message has been edited by PersonGuy on February 10, 2001 at 09:42 PM
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Hey DKB shu'p with all that jibba jabber ya crazy foo!
Granted, it could happen anywhere in that time, but it's pretty effective, nonetheless.
I suffer (or rather did) from really bad pains, the last lot got so bad I had to go to a Med Centre. A Dr suggested I go on the pill to stop the pain - I read the details - but there's no bloody way I'm ever taking that shit.
So instead I'm on Ponstan, wich is pretty good, i don't feel a damn thing now.
My 2c on Depo - it's better in some cases than the pill. Or you could use 2 barriers, rather than chemical control.
I can see by the looks of it most women would rather not be on the pill, and I dont blame them. However it also seems to me that most me would rather have their women on the pill. I assume that this is because they are no longer responsible for contraception....maybe Im wrong about that but using the pill puts a lot of pressure on the woman- if she forgets to take it, if it some how doesnt work etc it some how no longer envolves the man.
And as far as the gyno is concerned- Ive been avoiding going for like 5 years now (I'm 22 and still havent been)I dont want her to tell me I can't have kids (even thou I really dont want them- thats my choice to make) and Im afraid that she will. In truth Im scared of all doctors for the same basic reason- I dont feel sick therefore Im not sick so why go? 
*sigh*
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"I ated the purple berries...they tasted like burning"
Even if you don't feel sick, things can start going wrong. If you catch things early, then the chances of succesful treatment are hugely better.
I don't want to scaremonger, but it is daft not to go to the doctor. If s/he told you that you are sterile (which is hugely unlikely) at least you can do something about it and you can still have children.
Anyway, I BEG you to PLEASE go see the gyno-doc! You're a big girl now, and if your sexual active you've GOT to get regular check-ups! There's SO MANY compilications that are ironically "uncomplicated" if you catch them early enough! You've gotta conquer it, or it's likely to conquer YOU!
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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >
quote:
Originally posted by kuru:
1) i can feel all of my own 'deep corners'
That scares me.
Neither me, her, or the doctor could find the condom up inside her just by looking. Neither me or her could find it using our fingers, but then again we tore the room upside down looking for the rubber.
The docotor had the advantage of using some tweeser lookin things.
He found it all the way in the back wadded up near her cervex or whatever.
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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >
What do you consider "a lot" of sex. I see my bf three times a week- we have sex maybe twice a week depending on who is home. ( I have a flatmate but she works nites) Its not like we have sex every single day.
I also think there is more of a joint effort where condoms are concerned. Both of you are responsible for buying and using them. Whereas with birth control only the woman is responsible for buying them and she is also the only one who takes them. Its not like men have this choice about it. At least with condoms I feel like we are both making this decision.
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"I ated the purple berries...they tasted like burning"
You can have those removed at anytime.
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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >
quote:
Originally posted by Chrissy:
Im not going to have my tubes tied at age 22- thats just ridiculous.
That's good - no surgeon would do that at 22 (also if you have no children already).
Implants (I think you mean IUD's or coils) have to be fitted and removed by a doctor anyway - they are not a DIY job. They work by preventing implantation of an embryo - not preventing the sperm fertilising the egg. Worth thinking about if you are against abortion etc.
Check out jennycam.com sometime. I haven't looked to see if it's even still there, but she had a rant a couple of years ago about her experience. She basically had a 4 month long period that stopped when she had the implant removed.
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Hey DKB shu'p with all that jibba jabber ya crazy foo!
That way you're both involved! Oh, and BTW, I never said stop using condoms... there should be a trasition where you're using both...Anywaze... by ALOT OF SEX, I meant quantity, not frequency. Meaning: if you plan on being with him 10 more years... even if you do it once a week, that's ALOT OF SEX! If you only plan on being with him 1 more year and do it every day that's ALOT OF SEX. So at 2-3 times a week... even THAT is ALOT OF SEX by the end of the year...
heh,
SEE THE DOC!
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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >
And PersonGuy is right. If a condom is 99\% safe it WILL fail 1 out of 100 times. Else it would be more than 99\% safe. If you want to be absolutely completely totally sure you won't get pregnant I've got the perfect remedy. Don't have sex! There...how hard can that be?
I am very much against abortion for "adult" people who just screwed up. That's the single most irrisponsible thing I can think of. And it's an almost certain way of "breaking up".
And "The Pill" could throw you hormone balance on the highway to hell. My first real GF (we were 16. One of the first times I ever did it) wasted a year trying to recover from eating one of those. She even grew a mustache, when the doctors gave her pills to inverse the reaction. That was terrible.
Chrissy. Go with the condoms you like. Don't be affraid to try different types out. The guys who make the condoms and sells them actually know that their purpose is to avoid pregnancy. And if you should get pregnant. Errhh...file a complaint...get a child....build a family...and be happy about it. Lots of people out there can't get pregnant even if they wanted to, so be proud of yourself.
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Hey DKB shu'p with all that jibba jabber ya crazy foo!
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Hey DKB shu'p with all that jibba jabber ya crazy foo!
I agree I think not having sex is the best option however I doubt my bf would agree- I mean I know if I talked to him about it he would understand- the last girl he was with for 7 years and they never had sex. (Of course after they broke up she found the first guy with a penis fucked him got pregnant had an abortion-which my bf who was not the father sat through with her, only to have her get pregnant again from the same guy this time she kept the baby and guess who was there to see the birth? you guessed it my bf) So Im sure he would be crazy understanding if we decided not to have sex any more.
I know that he and I dont have sex to get off- its the way we choose to be close to each other- cheesy yes- but its also the truth.
Personguy- interesting idea- but Im still the one responsible for taking it and for using it- he becomes uninvolved once we make that choice "together" Its the same problem I was talking about before side effects, failure of the pill etc there are other consequences etc..
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"I ated the purple berries...they tasted like burning"
so i'm glad there's birth control, and condoms, which would btw, only be guaranteed to fail 1 out of 100 times if you used THE SAME condom 100 times.
each new condom has a 99\% shot that it'll work. it doesn't remember that the last 98 worked, or the last 99 condoms worked, and say 'i'm the hundredth condom, i hafta break'
that means that if you used *that particular condom* 100 times, statistically it would fail once. if 1 out of every 100 times a person had sex with a condom, it failed, the population would be a hell of a lot higher than it is.
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
And your mind oviously can't comprehend statistics. If there's a 99\% chance a condom is safe there's a 1\% chance that it isn't. Statistically (not practically) this would mean that it would go wrong 1 out of 100 times. Hence \%=pro centas (per hundred). And still if it goes wrong 1\% of the times it's used, it'd go wrong 2 out of 200 times. To understand this you have to see that when using 2 condoms (=2 times sex) you'll double the risk than using only one. thus, there'd be a 2\% chance of failure as 1\%x2=2\%. Now if there where 100 condoms you'd have a 100\% chance of one failure. This is basic statistics. It can't get more basic that this. And you couldn't possible say that it doesn't go wrong more than that. People just get lucky, that they aren't in the mid-period or what you americans call it.
And you comment about the population is also wrong. It's not that easy to get pregnant. Easier for some people than others though, but it wouldn't influence the population. There's kultures where condoms aren't allowed, where they don't get more children than us. Another thing is that we'd just die younger, but I don't even want to go there.
quote:
Originally posted by askheaves:
Just a clarification on the 99\% effectiveness rating. The statistics is the chance of an accidental pregancy between a couple having regular sex over 6 months. This statistic includes improper use, like forgetting to take 2 weeks worth of pills, or putting the condom on backwards and using it twice.
Are people paying attention to me? Hello? Anybody? They do an empirical study with so many couples, supply them with a method of birth control, and find out how many had a pregnancy after 6 months. It's not a rating of effectiveness PER USE. So, you can have 100 one night stands and most likely a condom won't break. I 1:100 quality control ratio is absolutely horrible. There is no way they would still be in business. Currently, most manufacturing facilities try to aim at 'six sigma', or 3 failures per million opportunities. Obviously they're not going to hit that, but certainly not 1 in 100.
Birth control is pretty effective, and the most effective method (aside from abstinance) is the pill. Obviously there are tradeoffs (big ones), so decisions are made. On the pill, only 1 in 1000 women get pregnant after 6 months of use. Using condoms, 1 in 100 get pregnant after 6 months of use.
Thank you. I'll go back under my little rock now.
is there room under the rock for me too?
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
(I'm yelling at other people too... but it's more fun to yell your name )It's actually a government mandate set that condoms must be at LEAST 99\% effective. Some brands (such as Trojan) get a better rating. The \%1 error is 1 of 2 things. It slips off, or it breaks (it's not talking about actual defects in the laytex (although that DOES happen much more rarely and can cause it to break) ). What kuru says means if you get one that works you should wash it and reuse it because it's invincible or something!
Anyway... I can't remember all the other statistical nonsense, but somebody else should figure it out based on the fact that they have a more advance brain than a sea slug...
Ok, one more try Crissy. Every night have HIM pop the pill into your mouth. It can even be used as foreplay! But even if you decide NOT to do it... GOT TO THE DOC! I MEAN IT!
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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >
quote:
Originally posted by Kolben:
Sex is meant for reproduction. Condoms and other stuff is just a way to trick nature.
and my new pIII's are meant to be 700's, but i'll be damned if i run them at that speed! condoms, birth control, etc are hacks on nature. and damn good ones, if you ask me. i remember a quote i once read in one of carl sagan's books. it goes something like this (horribly butchered, but the point remains): "science and sex are similar: we do them because they are fun. every now and then, something useful comes out of it"
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It's not peer pressure, its just your turn.
This message has been edited by hyperponic on February 15, 2001 at 03:29 PM
eesh. even i know you're supposed to get a NEW ONE each time.
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
quote:
Originally posted by kuru:
if you used *that particular condom* 100 times
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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >
Just imagine pulling it on again....
/me pukes!
quote:
Originally posted by kuru:
IF.
You retard! Well normally you're smart... but on this topic (whether it be condoms or statistics, I'm not sure) you're a retard.
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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >
you do know what the meaning of the word IF is, right?
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
and i've used enough condoms... well let's just not go there.
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
i remember a study on left handed people in which researchers polled different age groups as to whether they were left handed, and determined that their were many less left handed people in older (60 - 80 yrs) age groups. the conclusion of the study? left handed people die younger.
they forgot that many years ago, kids were forced to become right handed if they showed left handed tendencies.
also, example of question asked to manipulate data:
'have you stopped beating your wife?'
yes
no
someone who has never beaten his wife, or doesn't have a wife, cannot possibly answer that question.
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
But when facing the topic in this thread about the chance of a condom breaking, you can't misinterpret the result. The question is quite clear (not perfectly, but almost). And I carefully did NOT analyze the result of the statistics, because the result would never be true. The equations lacks some variables that describes the value of lameness of the people using the condoms. But basically when saying that it's 99\% safe to use a condom it DOES mean that it WILL fail 1 out of 100 times. There's nothing to discuss, here. It's mathematics. It would be like discussing the fact that 1+1=2. It's plain stupid.
quote:
Originally posted by Kolben:
Reusable condoms...hmmm...*HUMS*
Just imagine pulling it on again..../me pukes!
This used to be so. I remember one particular advert on telly where one old man was showing the camera his condom, which he called "geronimo". It was made out of a relatively thick rubbery stuff and you were supposed to wash it out after every use..
take a coin, for example. if you say that the odds of a heads is 1/2 then, using your logic, one out of every two flips WILL be a heads. all it says is that in a very large sample group, chances are that near half of them will be heads.
now here's a brain twister: if you consider your sample group to restart every time you use your condom, then, according to ur twisted logic, the condom will never fail since that 100th time will never happen.
and kuru, a condom is not meant to be used more than once. it does not mean that if you use a condom 100 times, it is likely to break once. it means that if you use 100 condoms once each, one is likely to break. of course they could all break, or none of them could break, but its all just probability. you cant say using once condom because chances for breakage in a condom increase greatly with repeated or prolonged use. think about it...you're putting this little piece of rubber under alot of stress. if you're using it more than its designed to be used, its probably gonna give. if you blow a baloon up and then deflate it several times, it'll get much weaker and often will break.
The condom could fail the 1st time or the 100th time. It could still be in the 1\%. I pointed out that this is statistics and not "real life". It all depends on how you ask the question.
About your coinflipping...This has nothing to do with the question in this topic. I was told that a condom is 99\% safe. That means it will fail 1 out of 100 times. This is not about the chances. This is about the FACT that it's 99\% safe. If I told you that you could get 10\% of my money, you would recieve 1 tenth of my money. If I told you to roll a dice with 10 sides for all my money you probably would get more money or less money than one tenth. There's a difference between fact and chance...but I guess you would have to have TWISTED logic to be able to see that.
And I think that Kuru knows the fact that condoms are only to be used once. I think everybody in here knows that. Except people calling them geronimo She just put up a hypothethis...
BTW...if you actually read what I wrote you'd see that the logic is not very twisted. Most people find my logic very logical.
99\% does not mean 1 out of 100 condoms breaks.
Once again, because nobody is paying attention.
They pick a group of couples, give them a supply of condoms. 1 out of 100 couples came back 6 months later with a pregnancy. It's empirical. I've never had a condom break before, out of how ever many i've used.
They say it's 99\% effective in preventing unwanted pregnancy. Not, we have a manufacturing process that fucks up 1 out of 100 of the product. That company would be out of business.
For gods sakes. Stop arguing about reusing condoms or which one is going to break. You could have none that break, and still have a pregnancy. Which is a more meaningful statistic to you? Possibility of breakage, or possibility of kid.
at least, at this point in my life.
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
Kolben: dude, i know the difference between probability and reality. i guess ur just misinterpreting what i'm saying. whatever
This message has been edited by Xenoflargactian on February 18, 2001 at 04:25 AM
I think I said failure and not breakage. There's a BIG difference. Failure includes people screwing up.
About breakage. How can you be sure that your condoms has NEVER broken? Either you must inexperienced or naive. Breakage does not equal pregancy. And often the rift or whatever is so small or you're so tired that you won't notice it. If a girl with long nails puts the condom on you there's a big chance of breakage.
But the moment you start pulling numbers down on a subject you MUST be absolutely clear about what you are talking about. This discussion has turned away from condoms and evolved into statistics. And if you have no basis for the numbers you are shouting out. If you haven't measured them or whatever, you are lieing when speaking them. And remember that 99\% actually MEANS 99 per 100.
And the most meaningful statistic to me is possibility of breakage. You can't possibly use the other one to describe anything. And to develop your number (99\%) based upon possibility of pregnancy is dumb. You can't ever measure or calculate that number. You can however measure the other one.
And I'm talking about the stuff I want to talk about. And you saying what people should or shouldn't be talking about has no effect on me what so ever. Other that I will start to ignore you. People can talk about what they want...And if people want to reuse condoms, let them. Just don't put them in the dryer after you wash them.
This message has been edited by Kolben on February 18, 2001 at 04:38 AM
calm down fella, you'll give yourself a skin faliure!
that's better.
*pats kuru & personguy on the head*
now then, put it this way: condoms are 100\% effective if you use them, right 100\% of the time, the pill is 100\% effective if you remember to take it 100\% of the time. the chances of fucking up BOTH at once are pretty goddamn low. depend on both, like me.
and how many women will rely on a man to take the male pill considering the average male can't even remember one birthday and one anniversary a year?
--directhex
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The master has no need for money. And yet he sits and counts it. As a meditation.
-The Book of Cataclysm
1 per 100 couples who use condoms for six months will get pregnant.
that's where you get your 1 per 100. UNDERSTOOD?
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
quote:
Originally posted by Kolben:
But mathematics are mathematics. And mathematics are fact.
Not all mathematics is fact, some is theory. And mathematics is a singular noun requiring a singular verb, hence that should have been "mathematics is mathematics..."
On to statistics: while they are for the most part based on solid mathematical principles, they should never be taken at face value. Many details about the statistic (data) need to be analyzed and their relavence determined before the data becomes usable (information). Since a great deal of this requires subjective decisions, it is not uncommon to find the same statistic used to prove opposing viewpoints. Keep that in mind whenever you are tempted to tout statistics as an absolute answer.
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Old farts never die, they just get blown away.
This message has been edited by Hellraiser on February 18, 2001 at 08:35 PM
Sorry! I apologize for my bad enlgish. I know now that I'm a lower human being than you. You are the God. You are the savior. Rescue me from my bad english. And afterwards I'd like you to speak danish so I can spit in your face because you suck at it. About statistics, you said approximately what I meant.
Kuru:
quote:
yeah, 99\% does mean 1 per 100
hehe...no it doesn't.
Condoms are 99\% effective when used correctly and consistantly. Thats first off. Secondly studies are not often published that have external validity problems. Also they have to be retested again and again (they called that reliablity-test-retest) in order for the statistics to be published usually they look for these things. I doubt very highly that they would put on the back of condom boxes 99\% effective if it hadnt been tested and retested again, condom manufactures would have serious law suits on their hands if that was the case.
The 99\% does not take into account human failure contrary to popular belief it only takes into account manufacturing failure. Human error makes condoms only about 80-85\% effective.
"The condom prevents pregnancy.
It prevents sperm from entering the vagina. Of 100 women whose partners use condoms, about 14 will become pregnant during the first year of typical use. ("Typical use" refers to failure rates for women and men whose condom use is not consistent or always
correct.) Only two will become pregnant with perfect use. ("Perfect use" refers to failure rates for women and men whose condom
use is consistent and always correct.)"
This is from the planned parenthood website. Now you know what the statistics mean. Plus these things have been tested before they set them out into the world for others to use.
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"I ated the purple berries...they tasted like burning"
mmhmmmm
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
I just say that correcting peoples grammer/spelling is very low when the meaning is quite clear. The only use for it is for him to seem more intelligent than me, which he might or might not be. But to judge a guy on his english skills, eventhough his native language isn't english, can't be that smart.
OFF TOPIC...you wanna yell at each other take it off this thread
This message has been edited by Chrissy on February 19, 2001 at 01:16 PM
I believe that the polyurathene ones are just as safe as every other types. And you SHOULD try them. Then you wouldn't go about wondering if you should or not. If they're good you'd be happy about your choice and a bit annoyed that you didn't try them earlier. If they're bad you would be happy about the fact that you don't have to use them anymore. It's all a matter of what YOU like, and you shouldn't care about any other oppinions than yours and your BFs.
quote:
Originally posted by Hellraiser:
Not all mathematics is fact, some is theory.
shutup you FUCK! mathematics are fact whether or not it relates to reality is what is theory. dumbass mathematic newbie >:[
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Hey DKB shu'p with all that jibba jabber ya crazy foo!
This message has been edited by Dark Knight Bob on February 19, 2001 at 03:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Kolben:
Hellraiser:
Sorry! I apologize for my bad enlgish. I know now that I'm a lower human being than you. You are the God. You are the savior. Rescue me from my bad english. And afterwards I'd like you to speak danish so I can spit in your face because you suck at it.
Whoa dude! I never insulted you because of your english skills or implied that I thought I was better than you. I just corrected an improper use of grammar. I'd hope that you'd do the same for me if I were saying something in Danish and made a mistake. Calm down.
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Old farts never die, they just get blown away.
It just didn't work the way I wanted it...I'll try with some smilies next time...But I still think that mathematics IS fact. It's everything that can be calculated. Mathematics is based on rules and proofs. There are 8 basics if I remember it correctly. Every other rule has to obey the basics. And the basics are proven to be true. So the rules must also be true.
This message has been edited by Kolben on February 19, 2001 at 03:45 PM
So, in the end, it comes down to what is the right effectiveness for you, and what comfort you're willing to accept. Disease isn't all that scary of a concept if you engage in a limited number of relationships, or longer term monogomous relationships. Like somebody said, the risk of pregnancy is always present.
I would personally prefer no condoms, and the pill, but there are risks associated with that as well. It's sort of selfish of me since all it means for me is discomfort, less sensitivity, and (cover your eyes, squemish folks) a weird burning sensation I get occasionally when the spermicide gets into my urethra. That's my biggest hate of them since I can't piss for a day without keeling over in pain. It doesn't happen often, but it is a fear I have.
I don't mean to gross anybody out, but that's truly a problem I have with them, and I don't know if it's isolated to just me.
I just thought everyone would like the real facts about condoms etc. The success rate is directly linked to human error (or lackthereof)
As for the polyurathane condoms- went to the trojan website- they seem to be pretty secure with the fact that they dont cause pregnancy and dont transmit STI's (yippy). The bf and I gave them a whirl- and if you were thinking about using them before- Go for it, especially if you feel like you lose sensation when you are having sex- these are great because they transfer heat, you can feel everything- kind of nice
I guess thats it 
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"I ated the purple berries...they tasted like burning"
they are quite effective, but they don't stretch like latex, and are way way more prone to breaking. and even for people who do use urethane because of a latex allergy, it's often reccommended that they put on some latex over the urethane.
i don't think i'd trust 'em.
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
Don't you mean urethan over the laytex?
Oh, and Kolben, you English is better than MINE (not that that's saying much) so I definately got you point!
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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >
all your english are belong to us
It's ...
How are you gentlemen !!!
Don't forget the !'s
This has been a party political post on behalf of the sarcastic party.
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-- incubus
As I chase the leaves like the words I never find ...
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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >
First and foremost, yes, condoms do generally have a pretty good success rate, however you want to argue the statistics. But, in my opinion, b/c of the risks of them not being successful (through breakage, the whole latex pore thing, improper use, whatever) I'm not comfortable putting all of my trust in them. Yes, it's definitely better than not using anything, but having to get the emergency contraceptive "morning after pill" is no fun, and not getting it in time is a consequence I really don't want.
***Also, wearing 2 condoms at once is NOT a good idea! The extra friction makes them both more likely to break and fail!***
The depo shots do work for some people, but I know a LOT of people (my former roomie included) who got really sick from them.
One set of Norplant rods (I can't remember how many they do) are good for I want to say 3 or 5 years. But once they are removed it takes awhile for you to be able to get pregnant again. And like the depo shots, I know a lot of people who have had bad reactions to it, in relation to girls I know on the pill who have had issues.
And incidentally, for knowing so many girls on birth control pills, I can't think of anyone who's had a bad experience with them, except for maybe a little bit of weight gain. "The Pill" in it's many forms isn't as bad as a lot of people suggest, and is very often an improvement. It does sometimes cause weight gain and increase in breast size, but not always (it didn't for me). Periods are generally shorter, lighter (good for women who tend to be somewhat anemic during their periods), and more regular (which is very good for those of us who tend to run irregularly). And the pills currently on the market are much better that the early versions of the pill. The hormones are more natural, and stay closer to the natural balance in the healthy female body. They're more forgiving to missing one or two than a lot of people think, and if you take it as another part of your daily routine (such as when you brush your teeth at night) it is not often forgotten. It is the girl's responsibility to take it, but most guys I know are willing to help pay for it since they are no longer having to buy condoms. In many cases it is cheaper to buy a month's supply of birth control pills than it is to buy a month's supply of condoms, and if the cost of the doctor's visit is a concern, you can go to Planned Parenthood to get on the pill. I'm not saying it's the right thing for everyone, but I think a lot of girls psyche themselves out about it for nothing.
Stepping down of the soap box now. Good thing I wasn't expecting any change.
the pill can seriously increase risk of heart disease, blood clots, strokes, and some types of cancer. as someone who's entire family health history is marked with cancer, heart disease, or both, the pill is just not an option.
i don't think i'll ever believe that they're anywhere near 'natural'. my body makes its own hormones, it does a damn good job of it, so i see no need to stick a daily dose of something made in a lab into me, regarless of how cheap and routine.
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
some people don't produce the things they need, so they need a supplement. i am not one of those people who does not produce adequate estrogen, therefore i can find no compelling reason to alter the hormonal content of my body when a more benign method of acheiving the same effect (no pregnancy) exists.
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
As for the "naturalness" though, there are lots of women whose bodies don't do a good job of making the hormones themselves. I much prefer being on the pill, knowing when my periods will be, and knowing that I won't get pregnant than not being on the pill, going for months at a time without a period, and not knowing if it's b/c my body is wack-ass or if it's b/c we're gonna have a little nautilus in nine months.
quote:
Originally posted by kuru:
that'd be why my objection to it is that i don't want to take something that my own body makes just fine.
Kinda reminds me of Exctasy. Instead of your brain producing the _________ chemical(I forgot which one(s)) E provides it for you. In the end that part of your brain that produces the chemical starts dying since you are getting the chemical from a very potent drug. Slowly your brain starts getting holes, you keep rolling and the more your brain looks like swiss cheese. If you stop taking E all together it takes quite a while for your brain to kick in and say, HEY I have to start making these chemicals again. The thing that sucks is you lose part of your memory and the parts that grow back have to be retrained in whatever was stored there.
Condoms suck, the pullout method is the best way!
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All that I know there was no God for me
Force that shatters all, absence of mortality
e replaces seratonin.
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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost
what do I know
Well I still think condoms are a big risk even if it is 85 percent or whatever (thats with typical use)Fuck I think sex is a big risk unless you are prepared for it. With everything you can get or have done to you I wonder if its worth the risk factors