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ü§îñg |³³t§þËåk Ðö˧ ñöt måkË ¥öü å Hå×0®!

Anyway, my personal beliefe is that you can do whatever you want to yourself, as long as it doesn't negativily impact another person. So murder is out of the question, smoking kills not just you but others, drug abuse hurts the ones around you and/or make you hurt someone directly, and being republican has a negative impact on everybody and everything. Through that last one in there just for you CK.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by RenegadeSnark:
Oregon, n.:
Eighty billion gallons of water with no place to go on Saturday night.

---

Take existentialism as a basis.
Mix it with "CARPE DIEM" in it's purest form.
Put a portion of rationalism in.
Spice it with bits of hedonism, cynicism/irony, emotions.
Decorate it with a bit of love and lots of fun.

I am an existentialist mainly... but not straight old-school. I love life. And I live it. Who knows what comes afterwards, and who gives a damn?

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quote:

---

Originally posted by RenegadeSnark:
Oregon, n.:
Eighty billion gallons of water with no place to go on Saturday night.

---

ive been through clinical depression, and beating that gives you a better perspective on life.

i'm reading "Zen and the art of Motorcycle Maintenence" ... thats an interesting book on all things philosophical.

i just go with the old wiccan philosophy, "do as ye will and it harm none" ... ie, do what the fuck you want to, as long as it doesnt hurt anyone else, it's cool. take drugs, get fucked, get stoned and stare at the stars, learn shit all day, party all night, work your tits off and save all your money, it's all good.

life is for the living, and even if you get reincarnated, live it like you dont, like you only get one shot, get to know and love everyone you can, dont hold grudges, make new friends everyday, and finally do NOT forget the quest to get much b00ty.

follow unca mikes philosophy children and you don't go far wrong.

and politics? fuck politics. gets in the way of a damn good party.

</Mike>

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-- incubus
As I chase the leaves like the words I never find ...

quote:

---

Anyway, short version: "if it harms none, do what ye will

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didnt read that ...

bing bing bing! i agree.

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-- incubus
As I chase the leaves like the words I never find ...

quote:

---

Originally posted by CatKnight:
actually i'm a utilitarian, a philosophy based on logic and reasonable thinking, and trying to maximize utility.

---

< >wait. Now I'm confused... You believe in all this, but you're republican? Shit, I'm still confused...</ >

Personally, I just say "as long as it's legal (or if it should be legal)*, do whatever the fuck you want and let me do whatever the fuck I want, and there's no problem". Religion wise, I'm a "Possibilitist". I believe everything, no matter how outragous, is possible, but that doesn't mean it's true or likely. I do believe there's some over powering being, kinna like "God" just not all seeing and bull, because I think he fucks with me man... Seriously... When ever a good thing happens, something totally random and terribly bad happens... FUCK YOU GOD!

* - I personally believe somethings that are illegal should be legal. I'm not a smoker, but weed should be legal. Prositution should be legal to. They can just tax the fucking shit out of it and shut NASA the hell up about funding.

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Net Syndrome - < http://www.netsyndrome.net/ >
Spydir Web - < http://www.netsyndrome.net/spydirweb/ >

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ü§îñg |³³t§þËåk Ðö˧ ñöt måkË ¥öü å Hå×0®!

quote:

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Originally posted by ic0n0:
Well I believe you can do whatever you want as long as it doesn't hurt others directly.

---

<ramble>
So how about all the cows you've eaten? Were they NOT hurt directly? Everyone MUST negatively others in order to survive! Just the fact that you were born means that millions of other eligable sperm had to die as an indirect result of your actions.

The ideal philosophy of life is to know the truth, but to also allow your fantasies take you away from it. Not understanding your own existance makes you a robot. Not having fantasy makes you suicidal.

OUR fantasy as a race is to deny that everything we do in life causes the suffering of another being.

So is it ONLY humans that we aren't allowed to hurt? Why? Because we are more intellegent than other creatures? Fine! Put a bullet through the heads of every retarted human on this planet if that's true. Enjoy... cause they DON'T matter. Again we must use our fantasy to assure ourselves that simply because they're human, they HAVE to matter. Our fantasy says that they are important and have a right to life simply BECAUSE they are human.

Living 100\% in reality is painful. Living 100\% in fantasy isn't possible, because we are based in a universe with physical rules.

So I belive that the purpose of life it to maintain a balance between the two.
</ramble>

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"Put the cheese on my bum." -Tom Green
-< PersonGuy >

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Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur

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Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur

This message has been edited by ic0n0 on July 20, 2001 at 09:38 PM

I believe in myself, rather then an aloof diety who noone knows to exist.

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Windows 95 -n- (win-doze): a 32 bit Extension to a 16 bit Graphical Shell of
an 8 bit Operating System originally coded for a 4 bit Processor by a 2 bit
company that can't stand one bit of competition!!

This message has been edited by Dysorderia on July 20, 2001 at 09:49 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by ic0n0:
basically I just say live your life the way you want to live it and leave everyone else alone.

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So the only difference between yours and mine is that I RECOGNIZE yours as a fantasy!
You effect people whether you belive it or not. And philosophy is ABOUT judgement, NOT values.

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"Put the cheese on my bum." -Tom Green
-< PersonGuy >

This message has been edited by PersonGuy on July 20, 2001 at 09:55 PM

I belive there probably is a 'higher being'. Probably many. I belive that ALL organized religons are full of shit. I also belive that 'Jesus' was a fraud, if not wholly fictional.

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When my flying days are over, and my death has come to pass
I hope they bury me upside down, so the whole damn world can kiss my ass

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dark Knight Bob:
does anyone not notcie that sithee isnt actually talking out of his ass like a lot of people here

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Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur

quote:

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Originally posted by Sithiee:
theyre not missing anything they havent seen before. but if they feed us, theyre being useful. humans dont taste good so it doesnt work for us.

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In that case we need to bust some soilentgreen on retards. And how many humans have you tasted?

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"Put the cheese on my bum." -Tom Green
-< PersonGuy >

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sithiee:
humans dont taste good so it doesnt work for us.

---

Have you ever tried eating human flesh?

On promises:
Merely words spoken also by theives and liars.

On feelings:
When we feel, we know ourselves better, but that means nothing if we feel within the constraints of our society and culture.

On honesty:
Honesty is manipulated by politicians to destroy what little morality that we have. There is no true honesty, because everyone is dishonest to themselves. We kick and scream and hate our shell, but we've put it there.

On determination:
Evil men are determined to kill, just as "good" men are determined to obey the law. Our laws, action, and morality is dictated, not just our income and leaders.

And finally, on religion:
The strongest opposition to our true reality is the false supposition of a higher, benevolent regime.

If you want to learn a little more, a good starting point is < Counterorder.com > - I don't believe everything he says, but he's got the basics.

--
Also, here's a story I wrote on the basis of Christianity:

Thot and His Longing

Thot was old and wise, always seeking for rebuke so he could explain himself. He longed for God, and he knew this. He loved his God, and sought him in the morning, afternoon, and night-time. He would say:

"God of all the earth, come onto me and show me yourself. I want to see your face among the clouds of all that lives, bearing your righteous love and kindness all among the people," and he then closed his eyes to all the world, for only the blind can love God.

Thot walked from city to city, bearing gifts for men in the name of God. He would shower them will all his wealth and prize their faces when they accepted it. He asked for naught in return except for them to try to open their eyes and accept Jesus Christ as they accepted his money. Why did Thot close his eyes to the people when he wanted them to open theirs?

On his death bed, Thot knew he didn't have long to live. He had followed all of God's tenants in his older years, loving all humanity without prejudice, but loving Jesus Christ the most. He opened his eyes for the first time, and saw what was near his bed: a child. The child whispered into Thot's ears:

"If God is true, He is a madman because he created us. Look! We theive and kill and rape. Solitude is immoral and our hatred is normal."

Thot cried and spoke, "Be banished from me you hell-spawn! Let me never look on your face again, for this is true: God loved you and sent his only son to die for you!"

Hearing what he said, he finally knew he had lived his life in blindness. When men pray, they close their eyes to all the world, for only the blind can love God. They put their hands up to relieve themselves of their cramps and shackle their intelligence for the loving embrace of a falsity.

The boy was right, but he had already left. Thot was there to die in his anger. He wrote on a peice of paper near his counter all he knew:

GOD IS TRULY DEAD.

Thot died with him.
--

Sorry for the length, but this is something I prize most of all in life.

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< Vitiate >

Penis-man!

During the many weeks I spent in the hospitals this summer, I had Catholics, various Protestants, Jews, Muslims, and Wiccans all praying to their respective deity/deities for my recovery. I'm currently just less than 3 months from the onset of my illness, and I've already seen more recovery than a lot of people with this disorder ever see. So IMHO, I think there is some kind of higher power capable of interceding in our lives when we need help. I don't think I just got lucky, or that my recovery was all the work of medical professionals. It took a lot of strength, will-power, and perseverance for me to deal with all of this, and still does, and part of the basis for my positive attitude has been my faith, and the faith of others. It doesn't really matter to me what you call this higher power; I'm not going to sit here and say that one is right and the rest are wrong, or that one is better than the others. I think all that matters is that you believe in SOMETHING, and do your best to live a good life. If living a good life means following the teachings of your chosen religion, then do your best to follow those teachings. If you don't subscribe to any one religion, that's fine with me too, just at least try to be a decent human being.

This message has been edited by miNus on July 21, 2001 at 02:08 PM

If I'm pissing people off - then I'm doing a good job.

quote:

---

Originally posted by miNus:
If there was some kind of higher, omnipotent, caring being, why would bad things happen to good people in the first place? If there was some kind of higher being, he's one cruel motherfucker. I mean, I'm alive aren't I? Isn't looking good for the religion argument, let me tell you that.

---

Yea, our religion is fucked up, because the idea of God that we have is based on fear. Goverments invented religion to keep the people in line.
Ex:
"You shouldn't do that!"
"And why not?"
"Because I said so!"
"Who says your better than me?"
"uhm.. God does!"
"Who the fuck is God?"
"Big guy, in the sky, throws lightning, stuff like that"
"Oh shit!"
"Yea, so do what I say!"

I think their is a higher power but he dosnt' want to intervene because she created us to expericnce life as a seperate being from "The All" its all very complex, if you really wanna find out more about this ideal, pick up "Conversations with God" by Neale Donald Walsh. If anybody dosn't want to buy it, I'd be happy to mail it to ya, just e-mail me

Edit: Their also available at your local library! I know I'm really pushing these books, but they changed my life, so, ya know, I kinda like 'em

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ü§îñg |³³t§þËåk Ðö˧ ñöt måkË ¥öü å Hå×0®!

This message has been edited by caseman984 on July 21, 2001 at 03:43 PM

And yes, bad things do happen to good people. I mean, even though I've gotten better, there's still a lot of shittiness that makes this situation totally suck. I mean, what did I do to deserve to spend 7 weeks in the hospital starting the day before my 21st birthday, and now have a lifelong disability? But after doing some soul searching, you come to realize that things like this are often a blessing in disguise. For all the negative effects this has had on my life, it's had a lot of positive effects as well, not only on my own life but on the lives of others. For me, it's changed the way I look at situations, shown me who my REAL friends are, brought my family closer, I could go on and on. For other people, I've been told by friends of mine in rehab that my positive attitude helped them stay positive about things, and that I've inspired them to work hard to overcome their own personal obstacles. I've also been told by other members of my family and my nondisabled friends that it's changed their outlook on life. My one roommate from rehab (we were 4 to a room there) calls me the "wonder child" b/c of how much progress I've made, and all the while she was inspiring me b/c of how much she's recovered! That's the other thing, whenever I start to feel down about myself and my disability, all I have to do is think about other people I've met, and then I can't help but be grateful for how much worse things could be. 2 examples: One guy I met at rehab is 22 and a classically trained guitar player. He got in a car accident, broke his neck at C6, and now has no use of his hands. Another girl I met there is 14, in the 8th grade, one of the sweetest people you could meet. She and her dad were on a 4wheeler that flipped, and she severed her spinal cord 90\% of the way through at T12, so she'll probably never walk again. You think about people like that, and instead of asking "what did I do to deserve to have to deal with this?" you start asking "what did I do to NOT have do deal with all that?"

Another example of bad things happening to good people, but being a blessing in diguise: Christopher Reeve. I'm sure most of you don't know a lot about spinal cord injuries, but let me tell you, the man should be dead. He broke his neck at C1, the highest you can get, literally separating his skull from his spine. But miraculously he survived, and has since used his good name to do wonders for the SCI and disabled communities. And even for all the difficulties it's brought to his life, he and Dana have both said it's had a positive effect on their marriage and family life.

To address satch's point of people who's condition is getting worse, this is something I am facing. While some things have gotten better, others have continued to get worse. I've also had improvements that have digressed and not "re-improved" so to speak. In some ways, I'd almost rather have not seen those improvements at all; to get things back and have them taken away again is almost like a tease. But at the same time, I know those temporary improvements did make my life easier while I had them, even if it was only for a short time, and I try to be grateful to have them even for a short while, cuz some people never do. And I'm still face the uncertainty of more digressions. They've been pumping my body full of steroids for the past 3 months, and no one is quite sure what's going to happen when they take me off of them completely. Given what happened whenever they just lowered my dosage, there are some indicators that I could still potentially end up confined to a wheelchair, or at least using it more often than I have been. But I know there's not really anything I can do to change what my body is going to do, all I can do is wait and see what happens, and deal with it as it does. I just try to make the most of what I have right NOW, so that if I do have more digressions, at least my body and spirit will be strong enough to handle them.

Becoming disabled makes you question a LOT of things. Maybe I would have been able to cope with all of this without my faith and the faith of others, maybe not. I don't expect what I've said to change anyone's opinions. I just know that this is what works for me.

quote:

---

Originally posted by PersonGuy:
So the only difference between yours and mine is that I RECOGNIZE yours as a fantasy!
You effect people whether you belive it or not. And philosophy is ABOUT judgement, NOT values.

---

Well sure it's about values I value individualism, kindness, fairness and equality. I am the 1st to admit I could be wrong, hell I don't even know how to spell. I just try to live my life in accordance with the things I value.

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Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur

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Windows 95 -n- (win-doze): a 32 bit Extension to a 16 bit Graphical Shell of
an 8 bit Operating System originally coded for a 4 bit Processor by a 2 bit
company that can't stand one bit of competition!!

i've been suicidal before, and that was when i was depressed. but when youre down there literally the only way you can look is up - thats how i dealt with my affliction.

i know nothing about the condition you have, but i hope that you find the strength within yourself to emerge happier and wiser from it, whatever path you take.

mike

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-- incubus
As I chase the leaves like the words I never find ...

Incubus,
Thanks for your support. Ever since I first got sick, I've been taking a Nici perspective with the whole situation. "That which does not kill you makes you stronger." Well, I'm certainly not gonna let this kill me, so the way I see it, I've really only got one option.

And for you or anyone else who wants to know more about my condition, check out the Transverse Myelitis Association website at < http://www.myelitis.org/ > It's one of the few sites I've found dedicated specifically to this disorder. Sites about spinal cord injuries and diseases in general are good too, and usually include a section on TM. The National Spinal Cord Injury Association site < http://www.spinalcord.org./ > has lots of information about all kinds of SCI issues.

quote:

---

Christopher Reeve. I'm sure most of you don't know a lot about spinal cord injuries, but let me tell you, the man should be dead.

---

Yeah, but the guy is Superman. What did you expect?

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When my flying days are over, and my death has come to pass
I hope they bury me upside down, so the whole damn world can kiss my ass

nautilus - that's truly inspirational, and I'll be praying for you. I would like to think that I could respond as well, but I honestly don't think I'm that strong.

As for my philosphy, it tends to echo a lot of others: live your life, make yourself happy, but don't hurt others.

I'm not so much concerned with laws and legality. When I do something wrong, I know that I'm doing something wrong and prepare myself to accept the consequences should they come. Case in point: got a speeding ticket yesterday...cop said 70 in a 55. I'm pretty sure I wasn't going over 65, but I can't be upset. 65 was breaking the law and I knew it. Only wish I had the ๪ just laying around!

That and I think that people who believe in segregation should have to live somewhere apart from the rest of us. And I hate intolerant people...I wish they'd just die!

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I can imagine a world with no hate, no crime, and no violence. I could also imagine us attacking that world because they'd never expect it.

This message has been edited by Beldurin on August 09, 2001 at 09:13 AM

A goal is not always meant to be reached, it often serves simply as something to aim at.

Showing off is the fool's idea of glory.

Self-education makes great men.

If you think a thing impossible, you'll make it impossible.

We Canadians have a general reputation for tolerance (Some interesting facts: We're polite, we apologize every opportunity we get, we wait six feet back in automated teller lineups). But come and visit Toronto and you'll find that it's truly a cold city. We're a neutral, indifferent, and cliquish bunch (small wonder that we lost the olympic bid). The trouble, as I see it, is that when no attempt is made beyond tolerating differences, i.e. when no attempt is made to achieve understanding; tolerance merely becomes a euphemism for indifference. The result: separation, isolation, and fragmentation.

Anyhow, I just felt like tossing that into the fray.

quote:

---

Originally posted by ic0n0:
Animals don't have rights neither do plants so they get eaten, I’m not debating whether they should or shouldn't have right's but right now they don't and the vast majority of people world wide do eat one or the other or both.

---

heh, thats a no brainer; if ya didn't eat you'd be dead, and I have never heard of a form of edible food for humans that is not a plant or animal product. Certainly not something that you could live on. Certain plants are the only form of life that can take their energy from sources other than life, they use sunlight.

As for my philosophy, if ya wanna be part of human society and interact with other people, its usually best to make a little effort to follow the rules of society, because if you don't you're a deviant and typically excluded from interaction. As for the whole right/wrong crap, it is merely an invention of human society to protect itself. Society could not long last if everyone went around killing and hurting each other, so conventions came about that within your social structure you do your best to not hurt each other.

I believe in a higher power, but don't believe that he cares about what we as humans care about. To elevate our struggles and concerns to that point is grossly arrogant and foolish considering that we don't elevate the struggles and concerns of what we consider to be lesser lifeforms on this planet.

Humans are naturally selfish, and the only reason we do anything is to get some form of gratification, no matter how we sugarcoat stuff to make it sound morally right and good and all that, it all comes down to that basic motivation: gratification of the self. Fortunately, we also have foresight and reason, which makes us realize that in order to gain gratification, we sometimes must do things we don't want. If this were not so, we'd still be pre-stoneage, with not more than a few million humans on earth, like any other species of primate.

Depending who you ask, we each have three or four main areas of self which interact to form the human struggle: we have body, which is the center of physical and physiological needs: food, sex, shelter. We have mind, which is the center of rational thought, logic, reason. We have soul, which was spawned from interaction between mind and body, whence come emotions, wishes, desires, morality, and all the parts of being that come into play in human society. Some say (and I believe) we have spirit, which is the root of our desire to find something higher than us, be it nature or God, something to justify our existance and give hope.

What all that has to do with my philosophy I don't know, only that it all ties in, and through understanding that, I am able to look at life much less seriously than most of my counterparts. It does not matter much in the long run how we live. But I prefer to do more to make this world a better place than a worse place because it gives me a sense of gratification to know that I have improved the quality of living for others by my existance.

As for politics, I hate them, but prefer them to all out anarchy and the disorder that would result. Causes I support are mostly environmental and educational and anything to decrease governmental control over our lives.

The one thing I would say is most important in life is honesty. People are too often distrustful of each other, and lie, and deceive, and cover up, when if we could all be honest it would make things sooooo much easier.

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Old farts never die, they just get blown away.

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When 1337 hax0rs start impaling each other with swords and typing code with a hook on one hand, then they can modify the term "pirate."

This message has been edited by Observer on August 13, 2001 at 06:12 AM

quote:

---

Originally posted by CatKnight:
actually i'm a utilitarian, a philosophy based on logic and reasonable thinking, and trying to maximize utility.

---

I'm somewhat surprised to say I agree with you on this one, CK. Utilitarianism isn't usually what I think of when I think Republican.

For those of you unfamiliar with it, Utilitarianism basically says we should strive to do things that do the most good for the largest amount of people, and Reason should be our guide when we do this.

It's a philosophy that seems simple on the surface, but it gets quite complicated at times - the Reason part of it is the kicker. Unlike pure, cold logic, Reason is a great balancing act.

Liney, I think you also summed up a lot of how I feel about living life. Existentialism is cool

And finally, when the revolution comes, you Ayn Rand freaks will be the second group against the wall - marketing departments will be the first.