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Forum: The Classroom
Topic: need love advice!
started by: CatKnight

Posted by CatKnight on Dec. 18 2000,03:19

i have always been attracted to this girl that i met at work a year ago. although we live in different areas, and she is a year younger then me, i think she is the perfect girl. we are both shy and innocent in a a way, but we are both very intelligent and cynical. anyway, last night we ended up making out in my car for half an hour. i'm not sure how she feels though. every time i act flirty towards her, she becomes a little upset. she wants to stay friends and she wants to trust me not to take advantage of her. however, she does occasionally do things like this, where we talk about persoanl (read sexual) things, or kiss. this was the furthest we have gone so far, making out that is. anyway, i don't know what to do! i need advice on how to approach this situation. it seems to me that if things keep going the way they are we will end up together, but not until the distant future (her or myself graduating college). she has said a few times she doesn't feel attracted to me, we are just close friends though. i really don't know what to think...

Posted by Neophyre on Dec. 18 2000,03:40

be happy ur gettin it

Posted by damien_s_lucifer on Dec. 18 2000,04:31

quote:
Originally posted by CatKnight:
anyway, last night we ended up making out in my car for half an hour. i'm not sure how she feels though....she has said a few times she doesn't feel attracted to me, we are just close friends though. i really don't know what to think...

What???? You made out with this girl, yet you honestly believe she's not attracted to you???

Okay. First thing, she IS attracted to you. Look at it this way : would you make out with a girl you weren't attracted too? No way!!! For that matter, you probably wouldn't be "close friends" with a girl you weren't attracted to, either. Women are a lot more like men than we give them credit for.

My point is that the ATTRACTION here is mutual. What she may not want is the usual RELATIONSHIP bullshit. So don't give it to her. By that I mean don't pressure her about a relationship, just be her friend. That doesn't mean you can't make out with her, or cuddle with her, or flirt with her.

I have a couple female friends I get to snuggle with. I would try going out with any of them, but there are a lot of good things about NOT going out with them too. One of 'em is kind of psycho, one of 'em lives a thousand miles away (she visits all the time tho), and one of 'em keeps running back to her stupid boyfriend. But they are all really good friends to me.

So basically, enjoy the time you have with her, be a good friend to her, don't about what you can or can't do because you're "just" her friend, and most importantly DON'T worry too much about your future with her.

Oh yeah, and regardless of what she says, if you flirt with her, compliment her, whatever, she WILL appreciate it.

Posted by Michael on Dec. 19 2000,13:51

quote:
Originally posted by PersonGuy:
Honestly, how many of your friends (who are female) would you NOT have sex with? Answer: 0.

What's wrong with liking a girl simply because she's fun to spend time with and is a good friend, without having to bring sex or romantic attraction into it? Having a real relationship that degenerates into "Let's just be friends" is one thing, but I don't contantly go around looking at girls as potential sex objects, _especially_ not if they're friends of mine.

Posted by jim on Dec. 19 2000,14:14

Michael. Seriously. No offense, but you are part of the 1\% of men that really should have been born female.

Actually even girls I know will look at men, even friends and have sexual thoughts even if they never plan to act on them.

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

Posted by Greasemonk on Dec. 19 2000,15:10

I would start making moves and letting her know you want to get serious. If you dont you might end up being one of her "gay" guy friends. This type of friend is the one guy she tells everything to, what she does with other guys, when shes on the rag, when she is off the rag, etc...

Posted by CatKnight on Dec. 19 2000,16:58

well thats not really an issue. she is really the lonely type and doesn't have many friends. she is home schooled now too. i think for now she just wants to have fun and be comfortable around me. that could possibly include sex in the future. i don't think a relationship is possible in the near future though.

Posted by PersonGuy on Dec. 19 2000,17:54

I don't know... looks grim for you, man. Once a chick has you on her "friend" list your pretty much damned. But there IS a chance, and here's WHAT you NEED to do.

Talk to her in private. Ask her how she really feels about you. Explain that you'll still be friends and everything, but you want to know SPECIFICALLY (and use that word.. 'specifically') what she she thinks of you. "Do you think I'm good looking? Funny? Easy to talk to? I'm not fishing for complements, I just need a better understanding of what we share. Is it all possible that we could ever get together?"

Now the sad truth is, if she says, "NEVER!" then you're not going to be compeled to be her friend. Honestly, how many of your friends (who are female) would you NOT have sex with? Answer: 0.

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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >

Posted by damien_s_lucifer on Dec. 19 2000,20:37

ROTFL jim... michael, it's okay to think your female friends are sexy, and to let them know it!!! I mean, friendship is about sharing things, and letting each other know what you like about each other. Two of my best friends are female. I've flirted and acted "inappropriately" with both of them from day one, and they love me for it. I see nothing wrong with letting your friends know they're wonderful and attractive human beings. And yes I've made out with them both more than once, but I always let them know that being friends mattered a lot more to me than "going out," whatever that means.

Female friends are also good to talk with about things that your male friends won't understand, they're good to snuggle with, good to go on vacation with, and good for those social functions that more or less require a date.

So, CatKnight, basically what I'm saying is there is less of a difference between "just good friends" and "going out" than most people think there is. This girl obviously has feelings for you; what she wants to do with them is another matter. But don't get all hung up on whether or not you'll "have a relationship" with her, because you already do. It's just not an ordinary one. But so what???

The best advice I can give you is to let her know how you feel about her, and do it in such a way that she doesn't feel *obligated* to have a relationship with you. Don't say "I'm totally in love with you and need to be with you," for example. "I love spending time with you" and other compliments in that vein are good and basically mean the same thing. Remember to let her know she's missed, etc. And *most* importantly, DON'T let her define who you get to be to her too much!!! If you're a nice guy it's easy to take the whole "respect" thing too far. Women NEED affection, even if it's from "just a friend," so don't be afraid give it to 'em.

Keep talking to her about things, because if you don't you'll make things up that aren't real. Oh yeah, and keep your options open; if you find another girl who arouses your interest, don't be afraid to spend time with that one too.

This has been the voice of experience speaking

Posted by CatKnight on Dec. 19 2000,22:39

thanks for the advice! that's pretty much how i have been approaching the situation lately. at first, like 6 months ago, i was trying to get close to her to go out with her. now that's not very likely, but i like the idea of being close friends with kissing benefits

. i think that's what she wants too. i'm just trying to figure out how far she wants to go with this (e.g. sex?)...

Posted by damien_s_lucifer on Dec. 19 2000,22:50

No prob on the advice - pretty much the same situation happened to me a long time ago, except the other way around. I didn't want to go out with a close friend, mostly 'cause she was 3 years younger than me (I was 17 at the time). So we arranged "friends with kissing+cuddling benefits", which for some reason seemed okay to me although going out with her didn't. And in the end we fucked it all up both because we were stupid and because people spent too much time telling us we shouldn't be together, horrible things will, blah blah blah instead of helping us out.

So keep in mind that relationships are a more complex than people make them out to be, and a lot different than in the movies, but things have a way of working out for the best -if- both of you can keep your heads level... as the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy says (in large, friendly letters) - don't panic!

Posted by PersonGuy on Dec. 19 2000,23:17

1) ANY decent looking chick can get with ANY single man she want's ANY time
2) she's not with you
SO
either
A) She LIKES you but is NOT ATTRACTED to you
or
B) You haven't given her a chance to express her feelings...

Either way, you need to talk to her an find out EXACTLY what she wants. All this pansy-footing will eventually put you exactly where you DON'T want to be!
either
A) You're waisting you time (provieded that yo don't intend on STAYING just friends)
or
B) She'll assume that you aren't interested (or just a pussy) and move on.

quote:
i'm just trying to figure out how far she wants to go with this (e.g. sex?)...

DON'T TRY TO "figure out" ANYTHING about women. ASK HER. "FIND OUT"

Oh, and the jim-man is right... Mikey-man is one of the few exeptions. BELIVE IT OR NOT, so am I. I DO have female friends that I'd NEVER have sex with, but that isn't true for 99\% of men.

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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >

Posted by CatKnight on Dec. 19 2000,23:28

first of all personguy, she is very cute, but is really shy and therefore probably couldn't get with any guy she wanted.

i think its situation A-she likes me but is not attracted to me. it's probably not B because she has told me how she feels, which is A.

as for what to do, both of your suggestions are shit (sorry). i'm not wasting my time with her because she is a very good friend, and nothing is stopping me from going out with another girl at school anyway. she knows i am interested in her, and that makes her a little uncomofortable because she wants to stay friends. i would directly ask her about what she wants, but honestly i don't think she knows either. its probably better to just let her decide slowly and for me to be there when she does, either way.

Posted by Michael on Dec. 19 2000,23:55

Allow me to insert a somewhat random story here...

The first time I ever asked a girl out on a date, it was to a school dance, she was a sort of friend / acquaintance of mine, and I got turned down. Disappointing, yeah. But the story doesn't end there. Because over the next few years, I got to be good friends with her, and although it was never any sort of romantic relationship, she's now someone who I trust more than any other friend of mine from High School, I talk to her on IM all the time, and I've probably shared a lot more personal stuff with her than with anyone else my age. And guess what? Having someone that I can trust that much means a lot more to me that having a date to some high school dance would have.

And yes, I do think that viewing girls as more than just sex objects puts me in a minority, but I'm _proud_ to be in that minority. Sure, like any of you I can't help thinking about women that way, but the difference is that to me it seems offensive to think about a good friend as no more than an attractive piece of meat.

Posted by CatKnight on Dec. 20 2000,01:24

i agree with you michael. my situation is sorta similar to yours. i'm just hoping it will turn out as well as yours did. i want to stay close friends with her (she is probably my closest friend now), but making out/kissing is awesome too. *sigh*...women

Posted by Vigilante on Dec. 20 2000,05:42

I fail to see a problem. Just don't push her.

Posted by damien_s_lucifer on Dec. 20 2000,19:03

quote:
Originally posted by Michael:
to me it seems offensive to think about a good friend as no more than an attractive piece of meat.

Hey, I only think of them that way some of the time

and like I said, most women like being thought of that way on occasion. One of my friends complained about it once, until I asked her why she didn't want to be thought of as beautiful and sexy - she said "well, I do" and I said "and I think you are. I can't think my friend is fine?" and she smiled and said "thanks."

That works because my female friends KNOW I think they're a lot more than just a piece of meat. If nothing else, a man isn't going to bother to continue to be friends with a woman if all he wants is to fuck her and she isn't putting out. In a way, knowing that I spend a lot of time thinking "damn, I wish I could jump her right now" and being unable to, but still being there for them says a lot more about my friendship than if I DIDN'T want them, because it's harder when you DO want 'em...

Of course, you still gotta be respectful of the fact that there are plenty of times they don't want to be fondled and/or ogled... one of my buddies can't grasp that little fact, and he wonders why he doesn't really have any female friends.

Posted by PersonGuy on Dec. 22 2000,02:14

Alright CatKnight. I miss understood the question. I thought it was, "How, if at ever, can I get this chick in the sack?" not, "I know a chick. Uh yah... heh..."

WHAT'S THE FREAKIN QUESTION!!?!?!

Anyway, but my MAJOR point was this... take a hypothetical. One of your chick friends says to you, "Hi. I've gotta be honest with you. You a good friend, but I don't find you attractive. In fact... I never will. Even if you and I were the last 2 people on earth, I still would NEVER EVER have sex with you EVER. I just wanted to let you know that." You'd still be friends with her!?! NO WAY!

PS: oh yah, and it sounds like she gave you your answer. Take a hint and go with the non-nice meaning. Anyway, if you're cool with that, and into other chicks, then I don't see what problem you have. More power to ya.

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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >

This message has been edited by PersonGuy on December 21, 2000 at 09:17 PM

Posted by PersonGuy on Dec. 22 2000,13:41

Cool how? Just wondering.

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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >

Posted by CatKnight on Dec. 22 2000,15:08

she's a sexy dork what more do you want?

anyway personguy your hypothetical situation was close. it's more like

"Hi. I've gotta be honest with you. You a good friend, but I don't find you attractive. In fact... I never will. Even if you and I were the last 2 people on earth, I still would NEVER EVER have sex with you EVER. I just wanted to let you know that. Now lets go see a movie then make out in your car for a couple hours."

Posted by DjSokol on Dec. 22 2000,16:57

quote:
Originally posted by PersonGuy:
[B]1) ANY decent looking chick can get with ANY single man she want's ANY time

In theory you may be correct, but in real life its not nearly that simple. I am a sophomore in high school (i can already hear the laughing), and in yearbook class (there it goes again) there are pretty much the two hottest freshmen girls in the school. They are both chearleaders, both very good looking, and both utterly stupid and moronic and lacking in common sense. Now, before I knew either of them and had ever talked to them, I would have gladly fucked them both until somebody passed out. Now, though, whenever I look at them they just seem to repel my vision because of their extreme lack of intelligence and personality.

Your theory has a counterexample.

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i used to be sniper3k. since then, the world has become a better place. music is the new killer.

Posted by kai on Dec. 22 2000,17:58

i disagree. I would still be friends with a girl even tho she wouldn't have sex with me. Assuming of course she's cool as hell.

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What if there were no hypothetical questions?

Posted by damien_s_lucifer on Dec. 22 2000,18:56

quote:
Originally posted by CatKnight:
"Hi. I've gotta be honest with you. You a good friend, but I don't find you attractive. In fact... I never will. Even if you and I were the last 2 people on earth, I still would NEVER EVER have sex with you EVER. I just wanted to let you know that. Now lets go see a movie then make out in your car for a couple hours."

Translation : "Hi. I've gotta be honest with you. I am a truly confused individual."

Posted by PersonGuy on Dec. 23 2000,17:11

How DARE you!? You come out of the wood-work... and your first post is to defy me! BAH!

I realize I left that point vegue, but I don't have time to write a book on it. For example, not and "decently" attractive chick could have Bill Gates. It would take a PHENOMINALLY hot chick, cause he has more money! Also, I said "Anyone single guy she WANTS". SHE DOESN'T WANT YOU, therefore the rule doesn't apply. If she REALLY REALLY wanted you, (if she had to) she could run up, and pull your pants down, and you wouldn't stop her!

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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >

Posted by CatKnight on Dec. 24 2000,07:08

**news update**

that pretty much just happened tonight personguy hehe. so uh...yeah

Posted by damien_s_lucifer on Dec. 24 2000,19:27

heh heh... I told ya she was attracted to you!

/me pats self on back...

go catknight!! woo woo!!

Posted by PersonGuy on Dec. 25 2000,00:05

Well good CatKnight! Now you have your answer!

Unless she was drunk, there's no question that she's attracted to you.

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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >

Posted by CatKnight on Dec. 25 2000,13:00

well i still don't know if she wants to go out or just be friends with benefits. either way though, she lives in virginia and i go to school in pennsylvania so it would be tough.

Posted by PersonGuy on Dec. 25 2000,15:22

Gawd... and I though my job had "benifits"...

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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >

Posted by damien_s_lucifer on Dec. 25 2000,23:45

heh... "friends with benefits" is quite often a lot better than "going out." I gots one of those. She used to be my best friend's girlfriend, they broke up, she moved away, and now comes back here every once in a while to visit me

Free nookie!! No obligation!!! (Just so you people don't think I'm slime, my buddy knows all about it. He couldn't care less.)

All that may change, though, since I met a girl the other night who's a physicist at Stanford... a beautiful geek chick! Yes!!!

Rambling... anyway, Catknight, enjoy what you've got. Nookie with a cool girl kicks ass no matter what happens in the end.

Posted by CatKnight on Dec. 26 2000,01:41

beautiful geek chicks are the best. go for that physicist man! treat her right! and thanks for the support guys

Posted by pulldownyourpants on Dec. 31 2000,22:37

Sorry I'm late gentlemen.
Cat- Good to here that it finally happened. my advice to you is on the same wavelength as Luci's. STAY FRIENDS. If it's hard for you emotionally, then step back. But friends are the best things to have. I know, I've had at least five at a time (before my daughter was born). I actually have two now with one being my roommate. She has a new bf but hasn't done anything with him yet so we please each other from time to time. The other one just calls when she's lonely. Which is fine. I'm always lonely.

But unless your looking for marraige, friends are the greatest thing to happen to modern relationships. Casual sex I think is how it's refered to.

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If you pull it hard enough, it will get longer, but if you pull it long enough it will get harder.

Posted by pulldownyourpants on Dec. 31 2000,22:38

And why the fuck am I a lamor?

Posted by rise888 on Jan. 01 2001,01:23

i tried having a bootycall/FTF (friends that fuck) but it didnt work out. For me, sex would always have some emotional aspect of it, and i guess i couldnt do it without feeling guilty, she couldnt either, and so we stayed friends, and she ended up as my gf. some people knew we tried to be FTF and they knew it was gonna happen that we ended up going out hehe, i guess because we spent so much time together. so i guess you should be glad to stay as friends, but i dont suggest sleeping with her, it could get messy

Posted by sick little monkey on Jan. 01 2001,12:14

i need some help. i really like this guy, but he is a really good friend, and i feel like i will break our friendship if i tell him. ne one help me?

Posted by PersonGuy on Jan. 01 2001,14:21

Well you came to the right place! If you're really good friends, then chances are VERY VERY good (95\%) that he really likes you! I'm not sure if you should tell him... it depends on what you want...

If you don't, then you'll just remain friends or whatever... but you might be hurt later if he gets a girlfriend (50\%).

If you do, I can almost GARAUNTEE that he'll be glad that you did, and you can go onto being BF/GF. Maybe do the nasty thing if you choose, but remember that the choose is 100\% up to YOU. Keep in mind though... if the relationship ever goes on the rocks, there's a chance that you won't end up being friends again! roughly 75\%.

Do what's best for you! Good luck!

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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >

Posted by askheaves on Jan. 01 2001,14:31

I think we've been duped by the sick little monkey. A little while ago, he was from Perth, Australia.. now from England... suspicious?

Posted by PersonGuy on Jan. 08 2001,14:11

I told you what to do! I even gave you percentages, dammit! I'm very sure he like you! If he doesn't, I swear I'll send you a crispy ฤ bill!

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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >

Posted by sick little monkey on Jan. 08 2001,17:12

my sister was fooling around with it, im really from perth, tasmania, australia.
i've liked this guy for 2 years, but i dont think he likes me the way u think. i think he thinks we're just friends...

Posted by mqa on Jan. 15 2001,23:48

sick little monkey: person guy is right. if a guy is your "really good friend" you can almost be assured that he would date you. it is almost impossible for a guy to be really close to a girl with out actually dating her or anything like that (or at least wanting to). thats just how men think. thats also why we always are thrown in to agony with the "lets just be friends" line. well i am anyway. most guys are simple minded in that respect, not like all that cryptic bullshit we have to put up with getting from girls.

Posted by Sithiee on Jan. 16 2001,00:03

true that, yo.