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You may want to focus on the equal rights gender issue. As any member of the US Military or law enforcement will tell you, women have struggled a long time to earn the right to serve and fight alongside the men.

The problem is that when they are granted equality, it is not carried out. Women are treated equally on paper (and mentally), but are allowed to meet far lower physical standards than the men. The problem arises on the front line.

I'm pretty sure others on this BB are Marines, and can support the argument that a women on a front line defense is a weak link. If that woman is seen, she will ultimately be targeted because of the physical strength gap. If she is taken out, her element may fold, and the whole operation is jeopardized. The same goes for cops. Women officers are far more likely to be attacked, and are also far more likely to use deadly force in a non-lethal situation, due to their need to make up for a strength difference. (I'll try to find the official stats)

that people fight racism with racism (affirmative action)

christians/conservatives support the death penalty and are against abortion (mentioned on the forum a few days ago, i believe)

or the fact that tobacco and alcohol are legal, while pot is not (yet has been proven no more harmful than these two 'legal' drugs)

or that it seems to be universally accepted (by guys and girls) that lesbian sex is cool, but sex between 2 guys is nasty (of course, i'd prolly have to actually be a girl to not think its nasty to watch)

or how about the way popular culture encourages people to be hypocrites by following fasion and trends rather than following their own ideas (ie - i want to do this, but if i do people will/might hate me for being different, so i'll do the opposite)

er...i'm not sure how well these fit into your classification. they're sort of cliche anyway, but hopefully they'll get you thinking...

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-The Drunken UPS Man
"What dosen't kill you, generally hurts like hell."

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or the fact that tobacco and alcohol are legal, while pot is not (yet has been proven no more harmful than these two 'legal' drugs)
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Actually, though seemingly unaddictve, pot is quite addictive. No it does not have withdrawl symptoms like nicotine or alcohol, but that means nothing. And the "yet to be proven" line - well that depends what you are reading. And I'd like to see what you read that stated that. or was it just something you heard?
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or that it seems to be universally accepted (by guys and girls) that lesbian sex is cool, but sex between 2 guys is nasty (of course, i'd prolly have to actually be a girl to not think its nasty to watch)
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Bozeman covered that one.

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or how about the way popular culture encourages people to be hypocrites by following fasion and trends rather than following their own ideas (ie - i want to do this, but if i do people will/might hate me for being different, so i'll do the opposite)
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Exactly what the fuck do you think popular culture is? Pop culture is marketing - plain and simple.

Also, that pot lacks withdrawl symptoms means more than "nothing". Withdrawl symptoms are the byproducts of a chemical dependency, which is what makes cigarettes (to wit, the nicotine in cigarettes) extremely hard to quit (second only to heroin I believe). Chemical dependency can be far more dangerous than psychological dependency. I think all substances should be legal, and it's ridiculous that when put up against alcohol and tobacco, marijuana is not.

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"Everyone's favorite implement for any task"
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[This message has been edited by cr0bar (edited September 19, 2000).]

quote:

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Originally posted by iso9k:
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Actually, though seemingly unaddictve, pot is quite addictive. No it does not have withdrawl symptoms like nicotine or alcohol, but that means nothing. And the "yet to be proven" line - well that depends what you are reading. And I'd like to see what you read that stated that. or was it just something you heard?
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And about the pop culture thing - yes it is marketing, and yes, you have to be a fool for being 'brainwashed' by it, but the fact that a good portion of the people on my campus dress the same way (abercrombie/aero, etc) seems to suggest something, no? But I was just throwing out an idea on that one: it needs to have a lot more thought put into it.

Feel free to add your own thoughts, esp if you think I'm making a fool of myself...

[This message has been edited by hyperponic (edited September 19, 2000).]

as much as i hate trendy mass-marketed shit, damn i wish i was the ceo of abercrombie right now. four chicks in one elevator, four abercrombie shirts, ุ+ a shirt....

and that's just one elevator, in one building, of one college campus.

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kuru
'if your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd kill you in your sleep.' -frank zappa

As far as illegalization of MJ, I always thought it was driven by the paper companies. That there was a huge conflict a 100 yrs back and the paper companies won the war against hemp. They wanted to make all of the paper. In order to eliminate compitition they attacked hemp by-product, THC and conviced congress that it was a dangerous drug...and it stuck.

I think the reason MJ has not been legalized is becasue if they made a new "drug" legal, it would bring up all sorts of issues centered around addiction. They would begin to question the classification of alchohol and nictotine, and there is no way congress wants to get into that.

Second. ok Cr0, pop culture can be dismissed as marketing. What else is it? The marketing aims at insecurities of the individual. It aims to undermine the individual. It abuses our herd instincts by enveloping everything around you and (sadly) making many believe, through ads, music, peer pressure, etc. that pop culture is more than marketing - that it is cool. And most everybody wants to be cool. Or at the very least, accepted. (which is why all those kids at hyper's college wear that crap)

Currently pop culture's goal is to say "be yourself, dress how you like, you can choose from these stores and their styles." That would be a good topic for a hypocrisy.

I could go on. But I still stand firm that pop culture's root is marketing. There are many aspects to its mass psychology, but it is the market that drives it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bozeman:
Lots of abercrombie at MSU too, don't feel bad, you are not alone.

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Thanks Not to knock you at all, boz, because you have plenty of good things to say, but do you have some issues with that school of yours? Boz, about christians/school prayer, i think (?? i apologize, but no time to read the whole thread just now): "Then you have not been to MSU campus."

As for paying ุ a pop for those shirts ... It sure makes me wish i had a desire to manipulate people! I'd prolly start a pop-culture T-shirt cult or something

Well, I have done smoked it before, and I have and still do drink alcohol. Now, that being said, you could look at it this way.
You can go to the store and buy some liquor and you could drink some and not even get a buzz from it.
Or you could go buy a dime, smoke it and get high.

My point: When you smoke weed, you are almost guaranteed to get high (of course, there are exceptions) but when you drink alcohol, you won't get drunk unless you drink too much.

I guess it's not really a clear point, but I am hoping that since everyone here are not idiots, they know what I mean

And guys, I am NOT bashing those of you who DO smoke weed. I am just offering a different view point

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Trying to figure out what to do with my new domain : < www.rabid-wolf.com >
Lead (only) developer of Data-Admin: < http://dadmin.sourceforge.net >

i'm not saying women couldn't do the job as good as me, i just don't want to see sadum putting his "little soldier" in her "barracks" if ya know what i mean

quote:

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Originally posted by Alarion:
Hmm, well alot of people complain about alcohol being legal and weed not being legal.

Well, I have done smoked it before, and I have and still do drink alcohol. Now, that being said, you could look at it this way.
You can go to the store and buy some liquor and you could drink some and not even get a buzz from it.
Or you could go buy a dime, smoke it and get high.

My point: When you smoke weed, you are almost guaranteed to get high (of course, there are exceptions) but when you drink alcohol, you won't get drunk unless you drink too much.

I guess it's not really a clear point, but I am hoping that since everyone here are not idiots, they know what I mean

And guys, I am NOT bashing those of you who DO smoke weed. I am just offering a different view point

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Well...you could just smoke a little bit (ie not smoke too much) and get a buzz off that, too.

quote:

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Originally posted by Alarion:
Well, I have done smoked it before, and I have and still do drink alcohol. Now, that being said, you could look at it this way.
You can go to the store and buy some liquor and you could drink some and not even get a buzz from it.
Or you could go buy a dime, smoke it and get high.

My point: When you smoke weed, you are almost guaranteed to get high (of course, there are exceptions) but when you drink alcohol, you won't get drunk unless you drink too much.

[/B]

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By the same token you could take only one hit of that dime bag and barely catch a buzz. Moderation is the key, alcohol and pot can get you equally buzzed/smashed depending on how much you do.

BTW, I smoked pot for quite a few years and when I decided to quit I had absolutely no problem doing so. I have been drinking for several years, and while I don’t want to quit, I think I would have a harder time of doing so.

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Presented in double vision when drunk.

quote:

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Originally posted by pengu1nn:
i don't think women should be in the mitilary either.

i'm not saying women couldn't do the job as good as me, i just don't want to see sadum putting his "little soldier" in her "barracks" if ya know what i mean

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Dude, stupid fucking thing to say.

I don't care if women are on the police force, military, or fire-fighters, AS LONG AS THEY HAVE TO PASS THE EXACT SAME TESTS AS MEN. These arn't professions that anyone wants a weak link in. Especially firefighters. Did you know that there is a movement to lower standards for firefighting for women?

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When my flying days are over, and my death has come to pass
I hope they bury me upside down, so the whole damn world can kiss my ass

quote:

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Originally posted by j0eSmith:
Dude, stupid fucking thing to say.

I don't care if women are on the police force, military, or fire-fighters, AS LONG AS THEY HAVE TO PASS THE EXACT SAME TESTS AS MEN. These arn't professions that anyone wants a weak link in. Especially firefighters. Did you know that there is a movement to lower standards for firefighting for women?

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That's the whole point exactly, they dont have to pass the exact same tests as men, they do the same tests, but their pass levels are set approx. 10-15\% lower than the pass level of the male. Please note that the percentage I just gave was an approximation across the board, and not for a specific area of service.
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As far as the whole pot legalisation thing, take a look at the countries around mainland Europe, quite a few have legalised marijuana, and the percentage of the teenagers smoking it in those countries are significantly lower (by the order of 30-50\% dependant on country) than the percentage of teenagers smoking it in those countries which it is illegal in. The whole rationale behind this is as follows; Teenagers like to rebel against the system, so if marijuana is illegal, they'll smoke it, if it is legal, they'll move to something different - Which is the reason behind the percentages I previously stated.

Also, the govt. would have to find some way of putting a tax on marijuana before they would allow it to be legalised in the USA or the UK, simply because if the government doesnt make money off something (via direct or indirect taxation) then they dont like it and hence frown upon it (legally or otherwise).

</give>

Pot will get you "fucked up" quicker than alcohol will. Now, I totally agree that alcohol is more addictive than pot, but honestly, I don't see how people can get addicted to alcohol.

Cigarettes, yup. I started smoking (in moderation) when i was about 13... maybe 2 a day... once I turned 16 and had a car, i was smoking about 4-6 day.. at that point I could quit whenever I wanted with no ill effects.
Once I turned 18, I moved out and went up to a pack+ a day. I couldn't stop smoking until this year (i am now 21). While I still smoke them on occaision (usually when drinking), I don't smoke as a habit anymore. I have to say, the reason it was hard to quit was not because I was "feenin" for it. It was more like I associated smoking with "good times". That was the hardest part.

Anyhow, I am tired as shit Night ya'll

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Trying to figure out what to do with my new domain : < www.rabid-wolf.com >
Lead (only) developer of Data-Admin: < http://dadmin.sourceforge.net >

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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >

if a woman and a man both want the same job (firefighter, cop, soldier) they should have to pass the same tests with the same score.

if male firefighters have to be able to carry a 300lb person out of a burning building, then so should women. now i know most women couldn't dream of carrying a 300lb dead weight, and neither can a lot of men... but anybody who can is the person i wanna see if my house catches on fire. (no i don't weigh 300lbs, but i do wanna be damn sure that whoever comes in there can rescue me.)

like i mentioned in another post, i did do physical labour. i worked on a construction crew and at a dairy farm. in both cases, everyone was held to the same standards, because if you didn't get your work done, someone else had to pick up the slack. slack more than once, and you got fired. things had to be done on time, and done right.. i had no objections, because it was fair. they weren't asking me to do any more than anyone else.

this is probably not something people are used to hearing from a chick, but i think these 'easier standards' are absolute shit. i'm 100\% for equal rights, but i'm also not one of those feminazis who thinks women should be given legislative help to be 'more equal' than men.

i'm still hoping i live to see the day when all people are judged on merit and ability alone.

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kuru
'if your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd kill you in your sleep.' -frank zappa

quote:

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Originally posted by kuru:

i'm still hoping i live to see the day when all people are judged on merit and ability alone.

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Don't hold your breath waiting for it...

quote:

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Originally posted by j0eSmith:
Dude, stupid fucking thing to say.

I don't care if women are on the police force, military, or fire-fighters, AS LONG AS THEY HAVE TO PASS THE EXACT SAME TESTS AS MEN. These arn't professions that anyone wants a weak link in. Especially firefighters. Did you know that there is a movement to lower standards for firefighting for women?

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Dude, I DID DESCRIBE ONE OF THE WAYS (my only real problem with women in the military) A WOMAN COULD BE A WEAK LINK!

quote:

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Originally posted by j0eSmith:

Did you know that there is a movement to lower standards for firefighting for women?

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this has nothing to do with what i said. not even close (but i do agree, if women are gonna do "mens" jobs then they should pass the exact same test)

why don't you read with your eyes and not your ass next time!

My point isn't to belittle women. I know they are very capable and very efficient in a large variety of tasks. I just want to show that the military is a no-bullshit organization. Fact are facts, and there is no plastic political correctness in the ranks, especially when it comes to the military's primary job: killing people. I think civilians can take a mighty fine lesson from this, for this whole P.C. equality seems to be getting out of hand via affirmative action, gender biasing, etc.

oh, and by the way, women often outperform men as fighter pilots because of body structure, apparently all that water in our breasts keeps the g-forces from pushing the air out of our lungs and making us pass out.

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kuru
'if your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd kill you in your sleep.' -frank zappa

I know you with all the things you get pissed at me about, you'd never guess that I DO belive that women are the superior gender. I just belive you take and claim more than you should. Men are better at some things... women are better at others.

Oh and that had nothing to do with your statement, that was just out of nowhere.

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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >

quote:

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Originally posted by kuru:
you've obviously never been in the military... or you'd know that among some PARTS of the military, there's no bullshit, while other areas are completely loaded up to the damn roof with it.
oh, and by the way, women often outperform men as fighter pilots because of body structure, apparently all that water in our breasts keeps the g-forces from pushing the air out of our lungs and making us pass out.

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First of all, I have had my stint with the military, but there is no point in going there. Nevertheless, you're right, some parts are full of bureaucratic bullshit...but when it comes to the front lines, there is none. In Army Special Operations, during peace or war, there is always a "zero-bullshit" policy about holding your own and getting the job done, regardless or race, gender, etc. That was my point.

Nevertheless, you brought up a totally unsupported claim about women fighter pilots, which is completely false. Where you picked up (or fabricated) this breasts/G-LOC correlation, I don't know.
< http://www.sci.fi/~fta/physiolo.htm >

Check out the article (which is popular amongst military aviators) on "Female Pilots in the Finnish Air Force." It mentions the US Navy's report of having "a lot of problems with female pilot's positive Gz tolerance." This was not completely due to Nomex flight suit tailoring, though the article slightly mentions that as a possible cause. Nevertheless, in documented G-force testing, the researching physicians found that "results show that G-tolerance with fitting G-suits is the same compared to male fighter pilots. However, female flight performance was 15\% lower than male fighter pilot performance in equal conditions." Also, "in car accidents incidence of whisp splash (sic) neck injuries is 20 \% higher in females based on anatomical structure of female neck."

Biasing the genders to force equality helps no one, and can only hurt us in the long run.

Breasts would not aid in anyway taking wieght off your chest. Imagine the G forces being a large tub of water with a gel-rubber bottom, now you lay underneath the gelrubber which would conform to your body, and then have someone fill the tub with water. You could imagine that breasts wouldn't help.

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When my flying days are over, and my death has come to pass
I hope they bury me upside down, so the whole damn world can kiss my ass

Aviation is definitely a cool thing. I uploaded this great pic from my cockpit photo collection...I thought you might get a kick out of it. It's right before she dived into the clouds for a dawn descent. You gotta love those Airbus controls, too.
< http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1188324&a=8752738&p=28959408 >

Oh, and that Picture is pretty damn nice. Do you fly? I don't have any pictures to post anymore, lost em all a while back, bleh.

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When my flying days are over, and my death has come to pass
I hope they bury me upside down, so the whole damn world can kiss my ass

I'm not sure if I've heard of that aviation school. Is that like Canada's version of Embery-Riddle?

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the_captin's_drinkin' _whiskey@the_throttle...
we're all doomed

Never heard of Embrey-Riddle, .

No, OUC is the Okanogon University College, it also has an Aviation program and school. I'm not sure of its exact name, but it is one of the best in westrn Canada.

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When my flying days are over, and my death has come to pass
I hope they bury me upside down, so the whole damn world can kiss my ass