Topic: Napster, Offline Indefinatly
started by: Lordbrandon
from napster, and now that the man has stepped in what will become the fate of our dear old nappy headed friend. will we be forced to turn to progs like imesh, or sites like audiofind. or will they see that its pointless to try and stop us, and let nappy go free?
music--effectively shutting it down.
In its two-page order, the court said Napster "raised substantial questions (on) both the merits and the form of the injunction."
The court also granted Napster's request for an expedited appeal. The company is required to file a legal brief with the court by Aug. 18; a responding brief by the music industry is due Sept. 8. After the briefs are
filed, the court will schedule oral arguments.
The decision does not address the merits of the case. Rather, it only maintains the status quo until the case receives a full hearing, which is likely to occur this fall.
"Wow, I'm surprised," said Fred von Lohmann, a copyright attorney with Morrison & Foerester, which is not involved with the case. "I didn't think they were going to do it. All I can think is that Napster's
lawyers made a very compelling argument that if you don't stay the injunction, we'll go out of business, and there won't be anything left to appeal."
Hillary Rosen, CEO of the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), which filed the suit against Napster, issued a statement calling the decision "a disappointment," but said she was confident about the final outcome.
"It is frustrating, of course, that the tens of millions of daily infringements occurring on Napster will be able to continue, at least temporarily," Rosen said. "In fact, since the district court
issued its order, the illegal downloading of copyrighted music openly encouraged by Napster has probably exceeded all previous records.
“We look forward to the day when the infringements finally cease.”
Napster attorney Daniel Johnson, of the law firm Fenwick & West, praised the ruling, explaining that unique legal questions posed by the case require full consideration by the courts.
"Before the court of appeals was prepared to put Napster out of business, these very serious issues had to be resolved," Johnson said. "Can a consumer have a right to copy? Can you use
the Internet for sharing information? Is Napster entitled to protection under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act?"
Rosen of the RIAA agreed that the novel issues raised by the case may have prompted the court's decision.
“The Court of Appeals apparently regards this case as the first of its kind and wants to consider it before any injunction takes effect," she said in a statement. "The court’s order sets an
expedited schedule for that review."
Carl Oppedahl, an intellectual property expert at the law firm of Oppedahl & Larson, said the stay will probably remain in effect until after a full appeal is heard by the 9th Circuit. It is unlikely
the Supreme Court will weigh until after the appeals court hears the case, he added.
Oppedahl said the decision to grant an expedited appeal could be seen as characteristic of the 9th Circuit, which has "tried to assume a leadership role among courts of appeal on novel
intellectual property and Internet issues."
Nevertheless, he cautioned, there is every chance the court could rule against Napster.
Today's reprieve follows a flurry of activity this week in the case, which pits the start-up against the titans of the music industry.
On Wednesday, U.S. District Judge Marilyn Hall Patel granted the RIAA's request for an injunction in the lawsuit filed late last year, accusing the service of massive copyright violations. In granting the RIAA's request, Patel found that
the plaintiffs had provided enough evidence to show a strong likelihood of success at trial.
Patel's order applied only to the swapping of copyrighted music on Napster. The company could still trade music that is approved by artists, and it could operate its message boards, which have been flooded with angry postings from
fans.
At the same time, Patel refused Napster's request to stay the injunction, saying the company must comply by midnight PT today despite objections that it could only do so by shutting down completely.
Napster attorneys yesterday filed an emergency stay request with the 9th Circuit to postpone the injunction while it prepares an appeal. The appeals court granted that request today.
In a statement by the company, Napster said it will continue its "buy-cott" this weekend. It is urging its fans to buy the CDs of the artists who have been supportive of Napster. A list of these artists can be found on Napster's Web site.
In a telephone interview from Napster's headquarters, CEO Hank Barry said he was grateful for the court's ruling and is planning to go spend the weekend at home with his three daughters. "It's been a very long week."
Asked about the mood around Napster's offices, where employees faced losing their jobs as soon as this weekend, Barry said he wasn't sure. "I've been in my cube most of the time."
No power? NO POWER!?! What the fuck are you talking about!?!!! WE have ALL the power!! Don't buy CDs!! It's called a boycott. You might have been whacking-off in the bathroom when your teacher was explaining it at the cost of my tax dollars, but it's been done throughout history! Refuse to by something, and companies will be at your feet; FORCED to work on your terms! Kick those money grubbing ass holes where it HURTS!! IN THE PANTS... right where they keep their big fat wallet!
I (and thousands of others) are refusing to buy CDs till they give up this stupid fight. If you don't call THAT power then your either smoke a pound of crack a day, or just BORN retarded!
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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.go.to/personguy >
[This message has been edited by cycosis (edited July 29, 2000).]
Ever hear of blacks boycotting the bus. There were MANY less blacks than whites, and it was a crippling blow! Sure, sure, more blacks rode the bus, but more techies, geeks, nerds, and 1337 h4x0rs buy CDs!! The average is 1 a month, but (as proved by statistics) napster users buy 6 a month! Why? a) Because they are more into music b) Because sampling music DOES encourage people to buy CDs.
Now I'll keep the insults to a minimum, but it's your winy, self-loathing, puny-brained attitude that lets the fat cats boss you around in the first place.
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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.go.to/personguy >
HEY, MORON! "fat cat's bossing you around" comes from the fact that they control WHAT you hear. There are hundreds of great unique bands that will never make it, simply because they don't fit into the main stream, or won't instantly sell 10 million CDs on opening day. It's not all about the money, like "HEY! LETS CHARGE MORE!" It's also, like "HEY! LETS CRAM A TON OF CRAP DOWN EVERYONES THROAT!" Ever hear of Metalic Roadkill? How about Chicane? Both some of the best bands EVER, but you haven't heard of them because they don't get funding... and the RIAA will only give them funding if...
well let me give you an example...
I bet alot people have heard of BT now. WHY? BECAUSE HE NOW HAS FUNDING! I've been following him for over 10 years, and now suddenly he's a hit! He's always been good... what's change? HE GOT A GOATEE, AND WHERE'S "HIP" CLOTHES instead of robes!!! "Oooooooo," says RIAA, "...we can market THAT!"
and to defend my other point...
"ive got no fuckin clue of the statistics on this one"
THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! YOU don't and I do. The statistic IS (now don't let it out the other ear this time) on AVERAGE people by 1 CD a month. However, (pay attention) Napster users buy an AVERAGE of 6 CDs a month. I'm not even going to explain the concept of AVERAGE, so if your going to mention all the people who don't buy CDs, or buy 100 a month without a computer or WHATEVER, then PLEASE don't bother posting any more messages.
So my point is, even if it is a small amount of people (and I think you've taken an ABSOLUTE maxium with the 1/240) you still have to divide the bottom denominator by 6. And I see a few CEOs vacations to Rome going down the tube (lol, actually a bunch of factory worker will just get laid off). Oh, and I don't know if you realize it, but several people who have never used Napster have also gone with the boycott! (btw, I've never used Napster and probably never will)
Anywaze, I think you all underestimate the dollar. When they see the line graph going down (as apposed to up) for the first time in 56 YEARS I think it'll give them pause for thought.
This isn't about a stupid website, it's about freedom and power to the people! Does ANYONE support me here??? 
It's sad what America is becoming... and this isn't a rant... it's a ralley.
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P:\erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.go.to/personguy >
[This message has been edited by PersonGuy (edited July 29, 2000).]
quote:
Originally posted by Sithiee:
you forget in all your ranting that not all napster users are the same. while some (ive got no fuckin clue of the statistics on this one, so i wont say i do) people who use napster do buy more cds, there are also plenty who dont. lets take for example my sister. she had access to a t1 line at her college campus, and so as a result she has an incredibly large collection of mp3s. she constantly plays them too loud, so i go in, and i hear a song i know (usually a cd i have, and i have never used napster, but i still buy lots of cds despite of that) and i ask her if she has the cd. i have yet to hear her respond yes. so while there are those who may buy more cds (i have yet to see one) as a result of napster, there are many who dont.
Take a good look. I've bought many more CD's since I started using Napster than I did before. Usually the way it works for me is I download the music using my cable connection, listen to it, if I like it I get the album, and if I don't like it I delete the music. It's true there's probably a few hundred megs or so of songs on my harddrive that I haven't bought the album to, including some that I haven't been able to find the album to, but I have close to 3 GB of mp3's that I have bought the album to, and only about 15\% of those did I buy the album before I got the mp3's (those are the mp3's I've ripped myself.) So to say that me being able to napster songs has cut down on the number of albums I buy would be insane. I'm sure there are many other people out there like me. I love being able to listen to all the songs on an album before getting it so I don't waste my ฟ on an album I only like 2 songs on. Why should I have to pay an artist to listen to songs that don't entertain me? I probably will never listen to those songs again. But I've also found great music like Propellerheads and Prodigy to name a few that I probably wouldn't have gotten into without Napster. I have bought several prodigy CD's, and I own DecksDrumsAndRockAndRoll now, sure there are some songs or remixes that I couldn't find on CD. Some of the best music out there might not be on CD, and what other means of distributing it is there than either knowing the right people or knowing the right search strings to napster it? Napster is definitely a great idea, and without it I bet CD sales would go down a bit (and my wallet would be a little fuller). But since napster hasn't officially closed yet the question is still somewhat academic.
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Just your generic meaningless signature. Mix with 2 quarts water and stir till evenly coated.
I'd seen pictures of Prodigy and heard their music from Fat of the Land. Frankly I was horrified and thought it was total crap! I hated the image too! One day one of my friends said, "HEY! How you heard Prodigy's early music?" I kept an open mind and WOW! Experience and even Music for the Jilted Generation were TOTALLY bitchen! I still hate their image, but the music is SO genious I HAD to buy the album! Now I'm such a big fan of Prodigy that I collect their singles and even coughed up the money for Fat of the Land, just to feel secure in having them all!
Now here's the point... a FRIEND SHARED HIS CD so I could listen to it. It was rules in a previous case against Magnavox many years ago, that it is TOTALLY legal for him to do that! It's also legal for him to make as many copies of the CD as he wants and hand them out! How is that any different than Napster?
And my second point... I've spent over 贄 on a band that I never would have spent a penny on, had I not been able to get a free sample! (btw, YUP - Propellerheads rule!)
Second, I don't stay up late at night to make up fake statistics! They were broadcast over a syndicated radio show (ever hear of The Motley Fool?)... were did THEY get them? Who knows... that's not my place to judge fact.
SO! COVER YOUR LEFT HEAR AND TILT YOUR RIGHT EAR TOWARDS THE MONITOR! DON'T BLINK!!!! HERE IT IS OOOOOOOONNNNNNNNEEEEEEEE MORE TIME!!!
Americans = 1 CD per month
Napster users = 6 CDs per month
(can I be any clearer?)
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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.go.to/personguy >
quote:
i recently bought the new apollo four forty cd, and the only song id heard off of it was stop the rock. to me that wasnt all that great a song, but because id heard thei other stuff, i bought it anyway, and im glad i did.
But you'd HEARD THEIR OTHER STUFF.
We're talking about if you've never heard a band, or only heard them once or twice, and want to see if you would like them. Then you can go on Napster, see if anyone else has MP3s, download a few. I know I've done that with Esham, Moby, VAST, and plenty of other artists. Also, maybe if I'd had Napster when Limp Bizkit's second album came out, I wouldn't've wasted ฟ on that piece of shit, so it goes both ways in that respect. See the Kid Rock thread, a lot of bands will have a cool song or two, then just release an album of crap, plus a cool song or two. So you can't trust the radio.
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But where is Gamera?
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But where is Gamera?
Anyway, SAMPLING doesn't mean "randomly listening to a few songs" it means "listening to the songs (Napster person - in a low quality format that I can only listen to on my computer) (CD borrower (that's me) - for a limmited amount of time, then I have to give the CD back to my friend)"
Ever watch infomertials late at night? Why do they sell things in the middle of the night? TO CHEAT YOU! They hope to catch the lonely, and the tired at a time when they can think strait. They offer you a product that you can touch and anctually see what it's all about! Now, I can goto the AS SEEN ON TV STORE and check it out... why should I buy a CD that I have no idea what's on it!?! It feels like the radio is a big infomertial where they only play the good stuff (actually it IS).
And to answer you question sampling has only stopped me from buy 3 (THREE, TRES, III)albums... that new Chemical Bros. CD, that Eifel 65 CD, and that Savage Garden CD.
And you're ABSOLUTELY WRONG! (as I mentioned before... but I'll have to do it again for this pea brained loser (why do I waist my time?)) There was a previous precident set when some TV broadcasting companies sued Magnavox over the personal recorder (kind of like a VCR). Magnavox won! The precident is that anyone can make personal copies of anything and share it with anyone (don't quote me on that one, but I'm pretty damn close).
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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.go.to/personguy >
Then in a sence, the song (on a hard drive) is in a non physical form... existing in a sort of "negative space". Well guess what... when a song gets stuck in my head, I'm not committing a crime every time I play it back. And I don't suppose they should charge royalties on my brain. Besides it's lower quality than the original.
And if a Napster user chooses to burn a CD, it IS illegal to do so with a standard CD-R. THAT's why there IS a SPECIAL type of CD-R that costs about ū per CD that DOES give royalties to the RIAA, JUST like a VHS tape!
Draw your own conclustions...
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P:\erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.go.to/personguy >
[This message has been edited by PersonGuy (edited July 31, 2000).]
quote:
Originally posted by Sithiee:
this is going to be treated different than a vcr or cassettes though, because with a vcr or a cassettes, you have to pay for each tape, whereas with napster its free, theres no media to pay for.
There IS media to pay for. 60GB Hard Drive = 跌. CD-R = 100-pack for ฟ. Your removeable media of choice (e.g. Zip, Jaz, LS-120) = $ a lot.
And regarding royalties paid on blank tapes... I'm deeply concerned that this hasn't been overturned by the courts already, considering that it is pretty blatantly unconstitutional. (Violation of due process. Guilt is assumed without a trial and a financial burden is imposed on the citizen without due process of law.) It just goes to show the extreme power wielded by the RIAA and large record labels, and if this isn't a good example of why that power needs to be curtailed, I don't know what is... It's like saying that because some people use guns in crimes, that everyone who wants to carry a gun has to serve a year in jail first, regardless if they use the gun for personal protection or for robbing a 7-11.
[This message has been edited by nobody (edited July 31, 2000).]
Of course there are exceptions to every rule but I feel that this is generally true.
And if CDs prices weren't fixed, say they sold at Ů or Ű each there definitely would not be a problem with piracy. I can't remember exactly, but I read that some record stores in the past had tried to reduce prices on CDs and were denied promotional material and even some shipments of CDs.
And nothing, you have a VERY good and interesting case that I never saw with the royalty fee! However, it is optional. There are cassets tapes with and without, VHS tapes with and without, and CDs with and without paying royalties. It's up to the user to be responsible.
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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.go.to/personguy >
Yay. That was fun.
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A good programmer is someone who looks both ways on a one-way street
quote:
Originally posted by Sithiee:
this is going to be treated different than a vcr or cassettes though, because with a vcr or a cassettes, you have to pay for each tape, whereas with napster its free, theres no media to pay for. because of that, napster is more likely to lose. when you purchase a tape (cassette or vcr) you pay royalties to the recording companies to cover for any loses they might have if you decide to copy music or movies or whatever on there. they arent going to start charging royalties on hard drives, at least i hope they dont...
Excuse me: you have to pay for the harddrive space, and last thing I knew, that was like บ/GB. for บ you could get 20 cassetes, 90 min each, which is: 1800 mins or 30 hours. 30 hours of MP3's takes up close to 2GB (on my harddrive) so cassettes are cheaper than mp3's.
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Just your generic meaningless signature. Mix with 2 quarts water and stir till evenly coated.
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UT 0wnz j00 all!