Topic: Athlon 1800 or 1.6mMhz?
started by: Dark Knight Bob
personally i think the only two problems it has is trying to convince the general public (stupid people) that this alternate way of marking processors is more accurate and that it'll take a while for people to get used to refering to processors in model numbers rather than clock speed. but at the end of the day it is a more honest way of doing things. if you ignore the blatant naming of athlon XP's, AMD doesnt try to bullshit its customers as much as intel do and at the end of the day everyone should realise that a processor alone does not a good system make
EDIT: fuck screwed the topic title up!
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simultaneity is not absolute. So just because you think i'm wrong, from my frame of reference i'm right!
This message has been edited by Dark Knight Bob on October 30, 2001 at 04:55 AM
for all the computer illiterate who think it's actually a 1.8GHz it's just a better incentive to buy
and for people who actually read about these things the actuall clock speed of the CPU is well known
so either way it's not to trick anybody, it's merely to compete with pentium better and to show how crappy intel's benchmarking is
most of the people would say that Athlon XP 1800 euns just as good or even better then Pentium 4 1.8GHz. There is no mistery in that, so if pentium's 1.8 is worse then Athlon's 1.6 then why not change the name of 1.6 to 1800+
that would appeal to general public much more and would be true in comparison with intel's pentium 4.
as long as pentium does it, why is it wrong for Athlon. At least they don't deny the actuall clock speed of the processor
AMD's PR numbers seem to be much more accurate this time... it seems that the new PR rating is the one where it equals or outperforms the P4 across a whole range of benchmarks, rather than just one or two, making the system much more honest. The 1800+ chips are actually outperforming 1.9GHz P4's in most benchmarks, and outperforming the 2.0GHz P4's on a couple.
Since they're being honest about the PR's, I'd say this is a very shrewd move on AMD's part.
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trying to use fortran is like trying to insert pineapples in your ass... it just aint right. -DKB
edit: Just wanted to add, I'm really glad that both Intel and AMD are around. They are forcing each other to keep improving their products AND drop their prices. The winner: US 
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This message has been edited by demonk on October 30, 2001 at 09:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by demonk:
I can't wait until the next revision of the P4's. I've heard about some of the improvements, and I think AMD will have a BIG challenge on their hands. For the last year or so they have been competing against a 1st revision of a chip with their 6th or 7th revision chip. Let's see how they can keep up with the P4 Prescott on the Northwood process. <evil grin>edit: Just wanted to add, I'm really glad that both Intel and AMD are around. They are forcing each other to keep improving their products AND drop their prices. The winner: US
No ... y'see, the next round are meant to be dropping RAMBUS. The reason that P4' do so well in benchmarks is that they are backed my Rambus memory. AMD are stuck with DDR at best. Everyone acknowledges that P4's are clunky shit, and that P3s are actually better processors in general, beating the P4s in several tests.
If we could level the memory playing field i assure you AMD would piss all over intel in every single respect.
And yes the consumer wins, so i dont care!
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"just pressin y0 butt0ns f00" -- miNus
Intel is actually being sort of evil in throttling their chips to the level that AMD is just enough to stay ahead. It's like that guy who could always run way faster than you, but let you stay 2 feet behind them to encourage you. This is the best time for them strategically too, seeing the economy as it is. Make the technological advancements while chip sales are down and spring totally bitchin chips on the world when they'll sell well. How evil 
And, have any of you seen the tomshardware review of AMD vs Intel chips when you remove the fan from them? It's the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life.
It's just a self-defense mechanism.
Don't mess with AMD.
This message has been edited by ASCIIMan on November 05, 2001 at 10:07 PM
I've seen in the industry people are really reluctant to change or try anything new with regards to workstation processors. Intel has been so good for so long, and the others (AMD included) have been so bad for so long, it's just an ingrained mechanism. You certainly cant blame IT people for it. THEY get blamed if the proccessor overheats and gives bluescreens.
I personally LOVE AMD's but Intel's chips are extremely good too, and askheaves is right, the P4 will have amazing clock speed soon, just wait :]
[edit thats a great gif! You know someone did that at work]
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LET'S GET AWESOME
This message has been edited by aventari on November 05, 2001 at 10:36 PM
Anyway, turns out the cooling fan on her Celeron had burnt out a few months ago. She said that a while back the computer was sounding like a coffee grinder. Quite fortunately, there didn't seem to be any permanent damage to the chip.
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When 1337 hax0rs start impaling each other with swords and typing code with a hook on one hand, then they can modify the term "pirate."
So, to sum up, the P4 was designed for much higher clock speeds, the next revision will improve so many things that a current P4 clocked at the same frequency as the new P4's will get it's ass majorly kicked! Add the freaky high frequency with an optimized core, and you have your kick ass CPU. For AMD to do the same, they will probably have to do a totally new chip core from the ground up(like Intel did), but that takes around 7 years, so unless AMD started back in 1995 on a brand new core to superceed the current Athlon core, they will be SOL in a year. Just my Ũ.02. I hate people bashing Intel when they obviously don't know the whole picture, or even the immediate future at all.
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quote:
Originally posted by miNus:
Who the hell takes a heatsink off in the middle of playing quake3 anyway!?
Nobody TAKES the heatsink off while playing, but you should plan for the worst case scenario, ie, getting excited and knocking your knee against the case hard enough to knock the heatsink off of the chips. It could happen!
The other thing i noticed is how tough it was to get the PIII and P4 chips off, but how easy it was to break the AMDs free. It all speaks against them.
quote:
Originally posted by demonk:
For AMD to do the same, they will probably have to do a totally new chip core from the ground up(like Intel did), but that takes around 7 years, so unless AMD started back in 1995 on a brand new core to superceed the current Athlon core, they will be SOL in a year.
< The Hammer will 0wn j00r next-rev P4. >
64 bit instruction set.
128 bit data path to main memory.
Insanely high-speed SMP design.
Designed for 2GHz+ clock speeds.
And a higher IPC than the next-gen P4 will offer.
All the next-gen P4 seems to add is support for hardware multithreading, which will require a lot of OS support, and quite probably app support... all of which means that we probably won't see much benefit from it.
Let's not forget that the Athlon, and now the Hammer design teams are a bunch of guys that used to work on the Alpha, which even now still has the highest IPC of any CPU you'll find.
The improvements aren't adding features. They are fixing design problems that have been holding the P4 back from it's true potential. The P4 core was originally designed to reach speeds up to 10GHz in its life time. I'm glad the new Athlon will be for 2.0GHz plus. Intel already has 2.0GHz chips, and has even demonstrated a P4(original core by the way) super cooled and running at 3.5GHz.
About the heat issue between the CPUs. I've personally worked on some of the thermal circuitry for the 0.13 micron PIIIs. Intel takes this issue VERY seriously. They go above and beyond to make sure that their chips don't melt, burn, die, whatever, even under the worst conditions. Plus, the idea that just putting on a heat sink runs the risk of CRACKING the CORE of the CPU just seems wrong!
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quote:
Originally posted by cr0bar:
Yeah, I don't know about you guys but after seeing < this video >, I am staying away from AMD CPUs. Plus, Intel chipsets absolutely kill AMD's in every single memory benchmark I've seen.
quote:
Originally posted by incubus:
The reason that P4s do so well in benchmarks is that they are backed my Rambus memory. AMD are stuck with DDR at best.
This isnt an AMD failing, the reason P4s beat AMD at memory benchmarks is b/c they are using better memory. That's like doing a AMD DDR against a PIII SDR.
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"just pressin y0 butt0ns f00" -- miNus
Who the hell takes a heatsink off in the middle of playing quake3 anyway!?