------------------
When my flying days are over, and my death has come to pass
I hope they bury me upside down, so the whole damn world can kiss my ass

quote:

---

Originally posted by j0eSmith:
..and you have a problem with that, DeadAnztac?

---

Yes.

When considering the use of weapons of mass destruction against Iraq as a means to an end, it would be wise to reflect on the words of the late U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis. His words are as true in the context of Olmstead as they are when they stand alone: "Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example."

from < http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/McVeigh/OKCaug98.htm >

by killing people, they are setting the example that killing is ok. It doesn't matter why, how, when, or where, but killing a killer is still killing a human being, and it is wrong.

------------------
"that's even better! hot lesbian witches.. think about it, it's fucking genius!" - charlie sheen

I would write more, but i am not as articulate when i am worked up.

Non: Oh, since we are inherent killers it's ok to kill?

quote:

---

by killing people, they are setting the example that killing is ok.

---

bullshit. we are setting the example that JUSTICE WILL BE SERVED.

quote:

---

See basically what your saying is that he killed people and that justifies us in killing someone too.

---

tsk tsk anztac. what we are saying is that he killed people and deserves to die for doing humanity an injustice. society doesn't have to justify itself for taking out the garbage.

like crystal; under an electron microscope it looks a lot like a big chunk of crsytal.

Human being is an evolved killer, just because most of us have empathy holding us back doesn't change that.

Now is it ok for a human being to kill other human beings sure, why not?, but in our fragile minds we can't handle the truth.
We try to hide behind "civilization". "Please Mr. sociopath you can't kill ppl it is not allowed, didn't you read the law?"
We are sheep and the wolves are among us. To kill a wolf you must become a wolf. Nature is not always just and we, our "civilization", is not a seperate entity from nature just because we have concrete and traffic lights. We are mearly niave.

Humans are animals, animals kill because they have to, humans on the other hand kill for all sorts of stupid reasons. So obviously this "inherent need" to kill obviously isn't relevant in nature, and probably isn't really inherent anyways. I think that's just something we, or society, has convinced us to justify things like war and sanctioned murder.

[EDIT]
I never said "Killing for the sake of killing" i don't know where you got that.
I said "Kill For Killing". Like the Death penalty.

This message has been edited by Non on June 19, 2001 at 11:35 PM

quote:

---

An anti-death-penalty protester stands in front of the Federal Penitentiary at Terre Haute, Ind., before Juan Raul Garza was executed for the murder of three people.

---

this woman is actually praying for the life of a criminal who let his family starve while he killed atleast 12 people in cold blood.

This message has been edited by CatKnight on June 19, 2001 at 12:13 PM

See basically what your saying is that he killed people and that justifies us in killing someone too.

quote:

---

Originally posted by CatKnight:
this woman is actually praying for the life of a criminal who let his family starve while he killed atleast 12 people in cold blood.

---

Looks like she is pretty damn stupid. I bet you 100 bucks if something like that had happened to her family she would be singing a different tune. Theres 2 kinds of these people, ones that believe in a justice system and ones that are in denial until they themselves go through a tragic experience and it forces them back into reality.

------------------
All that I know there was no God for me
Force that shatters all, absence of mortality

Death Penalty = Good

Let's put it this way:
What is the point of "Life in Prison" Explain that first, then we can move along.

------------------
jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

quote:

---

Originally posted by CatKnight:
society doesn't have to justify itself for taking out the garbage.

---

now, i do not disagree with death penalty. and i do think that Timothy McVeigh (sp?) did deserve to die. however i do disagree with what CK said. it is not about taking out the trash. it is supposed to be for the means of detterence. right now in US death penalty is used as means of revenge, and i am against that, however detterence is a totally different thing, though it may involve death.

and i do agree with jim in a sence that it is rather costly to keep all those people in prison. now as far as i know life inprisonment does mean that u stay in jail until u die. life inprisonment is a certain period of time.
i know in canada it's 25 years. so if u can live more then 25 years there is a point in sustaining u in prison so that when u come out u still live, rather then kill u right away. as for people who have like 5 consecutive life sentences, perhaps what they did to deserve that kind of term is severe enough for a death penalty

------------------
"Me fail English? That's unpossible!"
- Ralph Whigham

jim:

quote:

---

What is the point of "Life in Prison" Explain that first, then we can move along.

---

for the same reason why we put people to death.

korn:

quote:

---

it will be the society

---

exactly.

quote:

---

it is supposed to be for the means of detterence. right now in US death penalty is used as means of revenge, and i am against that, however detterence is a totally different thing, though it may involve death.

---

no, it's not meant as a detterent. do you think a bunch of terrorist said to themselves "uh oh the US is putting people to death, we better not terrorize them? the point of the death penalty is to serve justice. you do the worst crime? you die. you do a pretty bad crime? you go to prison for life. we don't put people in prison for life so they can think about what they did and come out better. we put them in jail for the same reason why we put a few to death. to serve justice.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Non:
You explain to me why Human Beings, being so evolved, kill at all.

---

Because some people are deranged psychopaths, the vast majority of the world feels the ened to have more land/guns/money/power, revenge, etc...

quote:

---

Then I will explain if it is O.K. to kill for killing.

---

First explain to me what the fuck the statement 'Kill for Killing' means...

In addition, who the hell says we're that evolved at all? We just have more shit now.

This message has been edited by TheTaxMan on June 20, 2001 at 10:37 AM

The DEATH PENALTY = kill for killing.

you kill ppl so society says it is ok to kill you.

quote:

---

who the hell says we're that evolved at all? We just have more shit now.

---

This message has been edited by Non on June 20, 2001 at 11:39 AM

The deterrence thing is crap, you have to realize that the death penalty doesn't deter anyone who would be deranged enough to commit those crimes in the first place.

Then there's a matter of cost. Life in prison can cost between 迀,000 and ũ million, whereas with the death penalty it averages to Ū.3 million with appeals and all.

Another issue is innocents; there have been quite a few cases where it is found, after an execution, that the person was innocent. No way to bring them back and apologize, whereas with a life in prison you can always pull them out again.

Anyways, why should we be able to decide who lives or dies?

The whole police/judicial system is set up to defend the public.
A man kills another man, he attacked the public, he becomes the enemy of the public.

By destroying that man the judicial system is merely fulfilling its purpose, ie defending the public from its enemy.

1. Timothy McVeigh blows up a majority of the Murrah building killing 168 men, women, and children. He confesses. He's tried and gets life in prison. After 25 years at the age of 57 he is paroled and strikes back at the government that stole 25 years of his life. He blows up another federal building killing 250+ people. One of those people is your mother, father, sister, brother, child or spouse. How do you feel that we let him do it again.

2. Timothy McVeigh blows up a majority of the Murrah building killing 168 men, women, and children. He confesses. He's tried and gets the death penalty. Hes put to death in terrahaute IN. 25 years later your mother, father, sister, brother, child or spouse comes home and has dinner with you, your life unchanged.

I find alot of the people that do not support the death penalty have not had any proximity to a psycopath, highly unbalanced, or person without morals. Or they are very religous. Im not saying these people are wrong in any way.

2 years ago I was a senior at Centreville Hs. 2 schools over at Robinson Hs a boy who had just gotten out of a 3 year juvie sentence for killing a student in junior high was paroled. One day after school at a local baskin robins he decided that a clerk and 2 customers didnt have enough holes in them. He killed the clerk and seriously injured 2 16 year old girls. Now he might not deserve the death penalty but its quite obvious that some people do not change.

Ponder for a second why it is you do or dont believe in capital punishment. Is it because thats where your beliefs lie or because thats what a parent, teacher, or the TV told you to believe?

------------------
Radio Dj: so now that your not on saturday night live what are you gonna do?

Jim Bruer: I dont know.. fight mexicans or something.

FUHAOHB2IPDEFCIPUDQNFQFYLOEGOGB

What about the guys down here in Texas that escaped prison and killed police officers before being captured. Dead men don't do that. Fucking kill 'em and and them have an open coffin funeral so everyone can piss and shit in coffin.

------------------
jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

quote:

---

Originally posted by DeadAnztac:
What the hell are you talking about Non? We're not repressed hunters! We chose to move to agriculture because we can control the food source. Even those who we would call primitive and uncivilized use agriculture. For example, there's proof that many of the Native Americans were farmers before we arrived. So where's this repressed killer thing? Or did you just steal this from some hokey movie?

---

Man is a preaditor. plain and simple. That is why both eyes face forward. We only grow food on farms because we are smarter than the rest of the food. We learned that we can grow food just incase the things we hunt are a little thin this year. That and with more food we can support more people that can help protect the socity. How was it protected? By killing any threat to it.

The only reason man survived this long is we were able to out smart and kill things that wanted to eat us.

It is these same leftover urges that power the fight or flight reflex.

Some people try to outsmart and kill the goverment because they feel that its trying to eat them. We outsmart and kill them so they dont come and eat us.

Deal with it, we are human. We kill everthing, including ourselves, and it's just getting worse.

------------------
Fucknuggets flamed while you wait.< TeamWolfguard.com >
< Robot Conflict >

------------------

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dark Knight Bob:
does anyone not notcie that sithee isnt actually talking out of his ass like a lot of people here

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by jim:
Fucking kill 'em and and them have an open coffin funeral so everyone can piss and shit in coffin.

---

I'd buy a ticket for that event!

------------------
"Thank you, God, for giving us leotards." -Koichi
-< PersonGuy >

quote:

---

its only reason for being used is revenge, plain and simple. the families, government, whoever, they feel that theyve been hurt, and they want to get them back.

---

wrong.

quote:

---

Originally posted by CatKnight:
oh look its sithiee and his dillusional self thinking his [b]opinions are automatically fact and stating them as such.[/B]

---

i dont recall saying they were fact, but if you ever expect people to take your opinion seriously you should learn to state it as fact. if i dont believe its true, then how can i expect others to? get off your fucking high horse. yes, i referenced office space. was i talking about the plot? no. jesus christ, i hate to be dysorderia, but stay on the fucking topic. if im so wrong, then respond to what i said, but not with ad hominem attacks.

------------------

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dark Knight Bob:
does anyone not notcie that sithee isnt actually talking out of his ass like a lot of people here

---

This is my opinion:

The Death Penalty is losing its force as a deterrant.

Did anyone not notice that Mcveigh did not even bother to appeal, but actually waived that whole process.

quote:

---

Originally posted by kornalldaway:

it is supposed to be for the means of detterence

---

------------------
Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

< The Bastard Operater From Hell >

Dysorderia - The one and only Hell-Bitch

and just for your information, the israelies were FIGHTING A WAR on CONQUERED TERRITORY now blowing up babies in a mall or in a government office building.

quote:

---

Originally posted by LazyGit:

McVeigh wasn't actually a psychopath and he wasn't insane either and he must have been pretty intelligent to design an explosive that would fuck up that much building.
cheers

---

Your calling a ryder truck filled with fertilizer and diesel fuel hard to make? Even the trigger was simple. A Ŭ.00 egg timer from sears and a 12v car battery hooked to a magnesium strip. Considering the training he got in desert storm, that is an incredibly simple design. What was the hardest part, building the detonator or renting the truck?

------------------
Radio Dj: so now that your not on saturday night live what are you gonna do?

Jim Bruer: I dont know.. fight mexicans or something.

FUHAOHB2IPDEFCIPUDQNFQFYLOEGOGB

------------------
"Thank you, God, for giving us leotards." -Koichi
-< PersonGuy >

Other than that, I have a very serious list of people that I would very easily kill if it were legal.

------------------
jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

In regards to the detterent hypothesis, this is simply untrue, study after study has been done on it and yet not a single one has given it any support, and even the United Nations concluded "Research has failed to provide scientific proof that executions have a greater deterrent effect than life imprisonment and such proof is unlikely to be forthcoming. The evidence as a whole still gives no positive support to the deterrent hypothesis..." and Canada's murder rates actually decreased after Canada abolished the death penalty in 1975 (from 3.09 per 100,000 in '75 to 1.76 per 100,00 in '99)

The argument for stopping criminal's from commiting crimes does make some sense and at one point in time it may have indeed been valid, however with the level the modern Prison System has reached it is no longer necessary, Prisons are more than capable of controlling the inmates to the point they are no longer a threat, and since life imprisonment is cheaper and allows them the possibility of reform it is obviously preffered.

------------------
The earth is for all the people. That is the demand.
-Eugene V. Debs

This message has been edited by NewAmerican on June 21, 2001 at 09:40 PM

This message has been edited by NewAmerican on June 21, 2001 at 09:38 PM

------------------

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dark Knight Bob:
does anyone not notcie that sithee isnt actually talking out of his ass like a lot of people here

---

Still don't think he should have been killed though.

"Serve justice!" Catknight, you sound like an effeminate Judge Dredd.

McVeigh wasn't actually a psychopath and he wasn't insane either and he must have been pretty intelligent to design an explosive that would fuck up that much building. As far as he was concerned he was fighting a war, the thing is, your crappy government knew he was about to deal a blow to the ATF in that building so they got almost all the ATF people out for April 19th knowing he was going to blow the place up. McVeigh blows up building, people hate the militias (no bad thing, they're all knobs) ATF gets loads more money and people start to forget that they murdered a bunch of people at that ridge thing and all those people at Waco.

I'm not saying the US government is evil and that McVeigh was right to blow up the building but he had his own reasons. He was fighting for what he believed was right. Want to say he was sick and fucked up Catknight, I think you were arguing that Palestinians are scum in the Rants board, the Israelies are murdering them over there aswell.

Anyway, killing someone doesn't serve justice it's just blood lust. If you think someone is a constant threat to the public then keep them in jail for life it's disgusting that you would kill someone for the sake of a dollar or supposedly as a deterrant.

None of you seem to realise what it actually takes to kill someone, it takes mroe than any of you guys have got together to kill someone in cold blood. Someone who is going to kidnap and murder someone isn't going to give a shit about being put to death when they're caught because they don't think about getting caught.

The next time you're sat with someone and there's a pen there, play a little game with yourself. Imagine you pick up the pen and stick right in their chest just to the left of the sternum and then try and do it. Go on, it's fun, I've done it with teachers and they were even ones I liked.

BTW Some guy kills someone, CatKnight gets them and kills them. What does Catknight say afterwards?

"That'll learn 'em"
cheers

OMFG that was retarded...

------------------
jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

quote:

---

Originally posted by NewAmerican:
"An evil deed is not redeemed by an evil deed in retaliation. Justice is never advanced in the taking of human life. Morality is never upheld my legalized murder."
-Coretta Scott King

---

An eye for an eye
-The Maker of All Things
You would call him God.

------------------
Fucknuggets flamed while you wait.< TeamWolfguard.com >
< Robot Conflict >

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sithiee:
i think the entire country takes killing to lightly. ill probably end up sounding like a sap for this, but life really is precious and an amazing thing. if WG said he was for the death penalty (i dont recall, nor do i care to look) thats different, because i get the feeling he has (time in panama right?). but for CK, whos lived a sheltered life in his nice suburban house in marylan, thats different. i dont think that anyone should be able to say "im for the death penalty" until they actually know what it means to take a life. its really not something to shrug off, and say "oh, well he was a bad person, its ok", because its not. i dont really feel like continuing this, because i really dont like thinking about the idea that so many people would throw away other peoples lives without actually knowing what it really meant.

---

Yes, i have taken the life of another human being. Was it nessary? From my point of view it was. (An AK's barrell is the size of the fucking holland tunnell when pointed at you) I was close enough to see the guys face when the 30+ rounds from the Squad Automatic Weapon almost tore him in half. Does it bother me? Not at all. It was just a job.

It had no effect on my stance on the Death Penalty.

What does have an effect on my stance. My cusin was raped and murdered about 20 years ago. This was this guys 2nd rape convictions. He pleaded out for a lesser sentance. sexual assualt and man 2. in about 5 years this anamal gets out. How do you think the family took this? This Fucker does not even get life for the life he took.

Now, tell me again how the Death Penalty is unfair?

When death touches your family like this then you can talk to me about being against the death penalty. Untill that time shut the fuck up.

------------------
Fucknuggets flamed while you wait.< TeamWolfguard.com >
< Robot Conflict >

quote:

---

Originally posted by NewAmerican:
McVeigh felt that the US government had commited a crime of this level and that it was his Moral necessity to make them pay for it, and pay for it with their lives....

...and since the government recently put Garza to death for the murders of two people McVeigh was certainly justified in trying to kill the government for what happened at Waco (assuming they were at fault) because many more than two lives were lost there.

---

------------------
jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

quote:

---

say that Mcviegh deserves to die, this means it is not only morally justifiable, but in fact morally necessary to kill him.

---

we (pro-death) said no such thing.

quote:

---

It says that if someone does a crime of a certain level than they must die.

---

this is correct.

quote:

---

McVeigh felt that the US government had commited a crime of this level and that it was his Moral necessity to make them pay for it, and pay for it with their lives

---

that is one man, who is almost certainly very disturbed, and his views do not represent those of our entire society.

quote:

---

McVeigh was certainly justified in trying to kill the government for what happened at Waco (assuming they were at fault) because many more than two lives were lost there.

---

thats just plain bullshit the justice system involves a court process including a judge, an impartial jury, and a fair trial. none of the INNOCENT CIVILIANS WHICH HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH WACO had a trial by jury before mcveigh 'executed' them.

quote:

---

In regards to the detterent hypothesis

---

i have said several times that this is NOT the reason why we are for the death penatly. you people (anti-death) keep putting words in our mouths and then refuting them which is a dumb strategy to begin with.

quote:

---

The argument for stopping criminal's from commiting crimes

---

this was not my argument either except in the case of repeat offenders.

quote:

---

allows them the possibility of reform

---

the people who are executed are the ones who are declared NOT POSSIBLE TO REFORM.

quote:

---

i think the entire country takes killing to lightly.

---

that doesn't make sense. if we took killing too lightly then we wouldn't have made such a big deal of the oklohoma city bombing or of repeat murderers/rapists.

------------------
"Thank you, God, for giving us leotards." -Koichi
-< PersonGuy >

quote:

---

in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king

---

quote:

---

In the land of the blind there are few optomitrist

---

quote:

---

In the land of the blind mismatching socks are excused.

---

In the land of the blind, nobody can read this, so who gives a fuck??

--amy

------------------
I am the one, the Alfa and the Omega...I am the Amygdala...

quote:

---

Originally posted by DuSTman:
I don't see what's so complicated.

The whole police/judicial system is set up to defend the public.
A [B]*man kills another *man, *he attacked the public, *he becomes the enemy of the public.

By destroying that *man the judicial system is merely fulfilling its purpose, ie defending the public from its enemy.[/B]

*me/ what about females?

---

bullshit...
since the 'enemy of the public' has already attacked the public, the judicial system is just making sure the enemy doesn't do it again...but there are thousands more of these enemies, and the damage has already been done...some protection, moron. the reason you don't see anything complicated is that your feeble mind fails to fathom this whole thing...oh it's complicated...
who decides on who dies? who has to kill them? who has to watch? killing a murderer/ess won't bring the victim back, and by killing the murderer/ess we're just showing that we can stoop to their level. and what are our reasons for killing a murderer/ess ? because they killed someone else? what if that murderer/ess had reasons, but they just didn't abide by the judicial system? who judges their reasons? what if i decide to kill the judges of the murderer/ess? what then? let's see, the judges killed the murderer/ess, because they killed someone, so i kill the judges, because they killed someone, but then i would be killed by different judges because i killed somebody...ad infinitum...
if society starts to just kill everyone they thought was the enemy we'd have no society left...
'we have met the enemy, and he is us'

it doesn't matter who does the killing...it's still bad

--amy

------------------
I am the one, the Alfa and the Omega...I am the Amygdala...

quote:

---

Since the 'enemy of the public' has already attacked the public, the judicial system is just making sure the enemy doesn't do it again...but there are thousands more of these enemies, and the damage has already been done...some protection, moron.

---

So, you're saying let 'em go? They've done their damage and arn't going to do any more? It may not be very good protection, but it's the only protection, and sure as hell what it's for.

quote:

---

who decides on who dies? who has to kill them? who has to watch? killing a murderer/ess won't bring the victim back, and by killing the murderer/ess we're just showing that we can stoop to their level. and what are our reasons for killing a murderer/ess ? because they killed someone else? what if that murderer/ess had reasons, but they just didn't abide by the judicial system? who judges their reasons?

---

Who decides who gets to kill someone else? The person who is considering it - the person with the gun in their hand. You can condemn violent criminals all you want, but if said violent criminal has a knife to your throat, what you think of them has little bearing on whether you die or not.

The question is not whether what they did was "right" or "wrong", it just proves that they are dangerous to the public that the judicial system is set up to protect and the judicial systems sole purpose in existence is to ensure that these people do not disrupt the "law abiding citizens" further.

quote:

---

What if I decide to kill the judges of the murderer/ess? what then? let's see, the judges killed the murderer/ess, because they killed someone, so I kill the judges, because they killed someone, but then i would be killed by different judges because i killed somebody...ad infinitum...

---

It's all very well to say it's wrong to kill, and most people believe that, but why do they believe that? Morality is not a physical property of the universe, it is a social instinct and it is subjective in what it dictates, America/European countries embrace freedom as their most sacred principle, and this indeed includes ideology. But freedom is a dangerous thing, and in a country where everyone is free to think everything and do everything, nobody is safe. A compromise was necessary between personal freedom and stability, and it is to this end the judicial system is created - to hold everyone to the rules.

The judicial system does not say "It's wrong to kill" - it says "We cannot allow you to kill people".

It isn't the moral guardian of the people, it is a force, and it is there for a very specific reason - it's there because of the people, to control the people.

Once someone has broken the rules they no longer belong to the group you would call "law abiding citizens". The person in question could be, and may be thinking anything - there is little certainty with which anyone can conclusively guage the intent of another person, and someone who has shown contempt for the rules of the land is essentially an unpredictable, dangerous thing. The surest, most efficient way of eliminating the threat, and to perform the function is to kill that outlaw.

This message has been edited by DuSTman on June 23, 2001 at 02:11 AM

If a guy is robbing a bank and has a hostage. Is it OK for a police officer to shoot him?

It's still killing.

"Oh... But it's self defense!"

So is the death penalty. It protects us from killers killing us.

This is no bullshit. I hope all you anti death penalty people have someone close to you murdered by a convicted felon. Really I do. Cause then none of you would be anti death penelty any more and we could begin to clean up this fucking country.

------------------
jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

Murder of a Federal Government official
Murder of a State Government official
Murder of a Peace Officer (is this in the line of duty or not?)
Treason (they should still hang people for this)
I'm not sure if kidnapping is one or not but that was all I could come up with and I'm almost positive there is seven of them...

This message has been edited by TheTaxMan on June 23, 2001 at 08:07 AM

quote:

---

Originally posted by jim:
It protects us from killers killing us.

---

again, bullshit...it doesn't protect, if the killer has already killed someone, all it does, is keep that particular killer from killing again, but there are many others. those might be discouraged from killing, and if we would broadcast the executions, that might discourage them even more...and i'm not saying we should let them go, i'm just saying that our judicial system is failing at protecting us from these killers, so executing people is useless...they've even executed mentally challenged people, people who really have no clue what they're doing...now that's where the judicial system has failed...failed at helping the people who need it. and as a religious person, i believe in forgiveness, and were the killer to repent, and pray for forgiveness, i would forgive, but the last word goes to the almighty himself, and come judgement day, i don't think all those judges, who killed, but probably haven't repented, will be happy campers...

--amy

------------------
I am the one, the Alfa and the Omega...I am the Amygdala...

i almost got suspended for that one haha.

who cares anyway he's dead not much use moaning about it now is there?

------------------
This is WAR wilson not sainsbury's!

-Arthur Lowe

btw amy; alfa = alpha?

Jim, it is self defense when someone stops himself or herself from being killed by killing someone else. Sanctioned execution is not self-defense. These people are going to go to prison for life, so there not a threat anymore.

Also if you want to consider this cold heartedly (in other words put aside all the obvious moral problems of killing someone, what's more an entire society of people ADVOCATING SOMEONE ELSES DEATH) you should consider that on average the death penalty costs 2-3 times MORE then life imprisonment, that is millions of dollars that could be spent on preventing more crime. In that light you could probably prevent more crime by putting someone in prison then executing him or her.

ck, just because someone is convicted does not mean that they deserve to die. if everyone who had ever committed piracy via the net were convicted, and we put them all to death because society found them guilty, would that make sense? the question here is not of guilt, its about whether or not the death penalty is a valid one.

anztac, you should find some numbers on that, cause jim had some saying the exact opposite.

------------------

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dark Knight Bob:
does anyone not notcie that sithee isnt actually talking out of his ass like a lot of people here

---

"In Texas, a death penalty case costs an average of Ū.3 million, about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years." Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992

This message has been edited by DeadAnztac on June 23, 2001 at 10:09 PM

FINE! Let's hear it! If there IS a good reason to mame, murder, and strike fear into the hearts of innocent, law-obiding citizens... FINE! I can't even IMAGINE what that reason might be... but if it fits the bill... let him off.

The same goes for fathers who kill their pre-pubecent daughter's rapist! If THAT is the reason he killed a man... GOOD FOR HIH! HE deserves an AWARD for ridding the community of a fucked-up moron!!

AND the same goes for exicutioners: WHY did they kill him???
a) it's their job
b) he is a danger to society
c) he was FAIRLY convicted.
THEY (same as the father of the raped daughter) have a VERY GOOD reason!

And Timmy-boy? As far as I've heard he DIDN'T! If he DID... well... too late! GOOD RIDENS! LIFE IS NOT A RIGHT... for we slaughter billions of billions of billions of sperm (potential lives) EVERY SINGLE DAY!!

FUCK HIM! FUCK YOU! FUCK ME!

------------------
"Thank you, God, for giving us leotards." -Koichi
-< PersonGuy >

------------------
"I am not a Marxist." -- Karl Marx

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amygdala:
again, bullshit...it doesn't protect, if the killer has already killed someone, all it does, is keep that particular killer from killing again, but there are many others. those might be discouraged from killing, and if we would broadcast the executions, that might discourage them even more...and i'm not saying we should let them go, i'm just saying that our judicial system is failing at protecting us from these killers, so executing people is useless...they've even executed mentally challenged people, people who really have no clue what they're doing...now that's where the judicial system has failed...failed at helping the people who need it. and as a religious person, i believe in forgiveness, and were the killer to repent, and pray for forgiveness, i would forgive, but the last word goes to the almighty himself, and come judgement day, i don't think all those judges, who killed, but probably haven't repented, will be happy campers...

--amy

---

Ok cool. You believe in forgiveness? Next time someone does a terrorist act like this lets have them live in your house for a few years and see if they dont do anything like that again. Since you are going to forgive them, support them and deal with them for a while and see what they do next.

------------------
All that I know there was no God for me
Force that shatters all, absence of mortality

quote:

---

Originally posted by DeadAnztac:

Jim, it is self defense when someone stops himself or herself from being killed by killing someone else. Sanctioned execution is not self-defense. These people are going to go to prison for life, so there not a threat anymore.

---

So, you take some animal and you put him in prison for life since there is no death penalty. Down the line some kid gets busted for having a couple of ounces of pot on him and goes to jail for a year or so. He offends said animal some how and the animal kills him. The animal is tried and given another life sentance. All the kid did was have some pot that he and his frieds could smoke and now he is dead.

With the death penalty at least the animal would have been on death row and not a lifer with the rest of the inmates with NOTHING to lose if he killed again.

Now, say you get busted for a dui and have to do some jail time. During lunch you bump into this big guy that stabbed 15 people to death. he is now mad at you...

Bet your last thoughts are going to be, "now, if there was a death penalty this guy would not be stabbing me over and over again."

------------------
Fucknuggets flamed while you wait.< TeamWolfguard.com >
< Robot Conflict >

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wolfguard:
Bet your last thoughts are going to be, "now, if there was a death penalty this guy would not be stabbing me over and over again."

---

id bet it would be "dear god i hope i pass out from blood loss soon!"

------------------

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dark Knight Bob:
does anyone not notcie that sithee isnt actually talking out of his ass like a lot of people here

---

The death penalty protects ALL of us. Even the ones that are in need of a little corrective action.

------------------
Fucknuggets flamed while you wait.< TeamWolfguard.com >
< Robot Conflict >

------------------
"Removed from their natural habitat, they can become highly aggressive. They bite, and their favoured method of attack is to hurl themselves at people's heads."
--Non

------------------
"Me fail English? That's unpossible!"
- Ralph Whigham

This message has been edited by kornalldaway on June 26, 2001 at 06:53 AM

ck: I haven't found the states that have it manditory for certain crimes as of yet. If i can't find them i will admit i am wrong.

------------------
"I am not a Marxist." -- Karl Marx

quote:

---

Originally posted by ic0n0:
In General I am not in favor of the death penalty, but like I said before some individuals who act against the state (treason terrorism) or serial killers I would support it.

---

These are the words of a smart person. He has his views but is understanding enough to see why it exists.

------------------
Fucknuggets flamed while you wait.< TeamWolfguard.com >
< Robot Conflict >

------------------
"Removed from their natural habitat, they can become highly aggressive. They bite, and their favoured method of attack is to hurl themselves at people's heads."
--< Non >

quote:

---

government had always said that they only sustain death penalty as means of deterrence.

---

now you're just spouting bullshit.

HELLO!!! i seriously doubt the families of some murdered school class are gonna be sitting around the tv the day after their kid and his/her freinds have been sliced and diced by mr mad machetti man.

------------------
This is WAR wilson not sainsbury's!

-Arthur Lowe

quote:

---

Originally posted by Non:
or the lack of response could mean that ppl are tired of yelling out their opinions to brick walls. we are prolly to set in our minds to change how we feel about this

---

well said. i dont care enough to keep bitching, and im sure that many people are the same way. especially when youre the only one arguing, its kind of depressing to be the only one who has your opinion. thats why i dont bitch at people for piracy anymore. the only time i do that anymore is when people tell me im a jerk for not pirating music and whatnot (my sister is such a fucking bitcjh), and even then i drop it pretty quick.

its a lack of caring, yeah, i disagree with the pro-death penalty opinions, and i think theyre kinda sick, but in the end, itd take far more arguing than i want to do to convince even one person that theyre wrong, and i (and i dont think im the only one) dont really care that much.

and DKB, youre so right. theres caring, and theres going overboard. i was watching the daily show today, and they found a guy who actually thinks we should take dogdeball out of schools because kids might get hurt. this is the kind of leftist bullshit that makes all people who might be somewhat liberal look bad. oh, lets protect all the little kids from the world so they dont have to deal with it. a little dodgeball never hurt anyone (well, not seriously anyway). theyre trying to take away the children's childhood. at the local elementary school theyre giving these kids like 5 hours of homework. so now, not only do they have almost no time to go out and play, but they cant even do anything fun when they do. im in high school in advanced classes and i rarely had more than an hour of homework (that i did anyway). ahh christ. im starting to sound old or somethin. "when i was your age, we had an entire hour of homework to do every night" "i have 5" "oi!" haha.

back on topic: pro-death penalty people, what would you say the line is between death penalty and life sentence?

------------------

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dark Knight Bob:
does anyone not notcie that sithee isnt actually talking out of his ass like a lot of people here

---

------------------
"Thank you, God, for giving us leotards." -Koichi
-< PersonGuy >

if the guy feels no remorse for violent acts against society, or he thought what he was doing wasn't wrong, *shhhhlurp*