Frosty

You didn't mention what motherboard you have. If it's based on the AMD 751 chipset, your memory runs at 100MHz. If it's based on the Via KT133 chipset, your PC133 memory should automatically run at 133MHz (the Via chipset can run the memory and processor busses asynchronously.)

I checked < Microstar's > website and it looks like their Slot A boards all use the AMD chipset, and their Socket A boards use the Via chipset, so if you know what kind of chip you have you should be able to figure out what chipset you're running.

If you have the AMD chipset, I wouldn't worry. The Via chipset looks better on paper (AGP 4X, PC133 support, etc.) but in my experience it isn't noticably faster (maybe 2-3\%), isn't as stable, and doesn't work with as much hardware as the AMD. That's why I'm keeping my K7M instead of upgrading to the latest, greatest thing

Hope this helps.

Just want all I can get ;-D

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"i was born without any nads, so i guess like, my kids wont have nads either" - Beavis

Metal/Electronic/Ambient etc..
< http://www.mp3.com/fatbitch >

quote:

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Originally posted by Frosty:
That did help, thanks. I've got the AMD 751 (the board is the MS-6195) and the real reason i was trying to figure this out was cause MINE is fairly unstable...is the ram running at 100 (normal speed) or is it actually up to 133?

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The RAM is running at 100MHz; the AMD-751 doesn't support PC100. But seriously, it's not worth replacing the mobo for a 2-3\% increase in speed. You'll get a lot more for your $$$ if you add more RAM to your existing setup.

The AMD-751 is notorious for being unstable if your memory is 1. cheap or 2. not put in the mobo the right way.

Make sure you have the memory in the slot FARTHEST from the CPU; this terminates the memory bus (which you're not supposed to have to do, but it seems to help.)

Also, if you buy more RAM, make sure it's made by Micron. For some reason dropping one stick of Micron memory in an AMD-751 mobo makes the chipset happy. Once you do that you can put in all the cheap RAM you want and it will still work just dandy.

That's the voice of experience speaking

Once again, thanks.

quote:

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Originally posted by Frosty:
1. Is PC100 memory compatible with PC133?
{/QUOTE]
Yes. The PC133 memory will simply run at 100MHz.

[QUOTE]2. Would it be worth it to unload this chipset and mobo to my friend who wants it for 贄 even if just for the ability to expand on it later? (4x agp would be nice too)

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No. The real increase in speed on the Via chipset mobos comes from the fact that most of them use a Socket A processor, which is based on the revised Thunderbird core (256K full speed cache instead of 512K half-speed.) So if you want to sell your processor AND motherboard, and get a new Socket A mobo/chip combo, it might be worth it.

AGP 4X is a joke; there's no performance difference from AGP 2X. Same goes for Ultra66/Ultra100 vs. Ultra33.

Seriously, if you have money burning a hole in your pocket, grab some more memory. An 800MHz Athlon TBird with 128MB DDR RAM might win in terms of raw benchmarks, but in terms of OVERALL performance, my 550MHz system with 512MB of RAM will be a lot faster because there is almost no hard-disk swapping.

quote:

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Originally posted by damien_s_lucifer:
... AGP 4X is a joke; there's no performance difference from AGP 2X. Same goes for Ultra66/Ultra100 vs. Ultra33.

Seriously, if you have money burning a hole in your pocket, grab some more memory. An 800MHz Athlon TBird with 128MB DDR RAM might win in terms of raw benchmarks, but in terms of OVERALL performance, my 550MHz system with 512MB of RAM will be a lot faster because there is almost no hard-disk swapping.

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I couldn't agree with you more on every point of your post except for the "Ultra ata-33 is the same as ata66 or 100.

Almost any new harddrive out now(even 5400 rpm) can burst send data at least 40mb/s. so when you put on on an ATA-33 bus it will slow it down some. And of course the degree of the effect depends on how fast of a drive you have in the first place.

But ATA 100 compared to ATA66 is pretty superfluous right now. The only Hard drive combo that can burst data faster than 66mb/s is a RAID 0 array of some new 7200 rpm drives. And even then a set up like 2 IBM deskstar GXPs is at 70-80mb/s.

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aventari
"Q: How do you tell an extrovert computer scientist? A: He looks at _your_ shoes when he talks to you."

quote:

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Originally posted by aventari:
Almost any new harddrive out now(even 5400 rpm) can burst send data at least 40mb/s. so when you put on on an ATA-33 bus it will slow it down some.

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True, but burst transfer rate is almost meaningless. It's sustained transfer rate that makes all the difference, and even the fastest drives on the market top out around 25MB / sec.

The point being that there's no reason to rush out and spend $$$ to get the latest, greatest UltraATA support... at work we get some customers that must have Ultra100 support. They'll buy a 7200rpm Maxtor drive over a 7200rpm Fujitsu because the Maxtor has Ultra100 and the Fujitsu is only Ultra66, even though the Fujitsu is a faster drive.

As for the RAID array, most IDE RAID controllers can run both IDE channels at once. The really interesting case was the guy who replaced his Fastrak66 (theoretical bandwidth = 132MB /sec) with a Fastrak100 (theoretical bandwidth = 200MB / sec), even though I explained that the PCI bus is limited to 132MB / sec.

All in all, if he really wanted raw speed he would've loved the Adaptec IDE RAID. It has 2MB of cache, expandable to 64MB, and completely kicks the Fastrak's ass. But at the time it only supported Ultra66. Oh well.

"As one would expect, the Deskstar 75GXP's high areal density gives it a huge advantage when it comes to STR. Big Blue's performer turns in an outer-zone score exceeding 37 MB/sec, the first to decisively surpass the 33 MB/sec ATA-33 barrier."

this is from summer, we know that hd speeds dont get any slower so ata-33 is a limiting standard now.

I mean it's not a big deal, but it definately wouldn't be a good idea to get an ata33 controller in a new pc now.

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aventari
"Q: How do you tell an extrovert computer scientist? A: He looks at _your_ shoes when he talks to you."

As for the difference between UDMA and Ultra ATA - technically, UDMA is a transfer mode, and UATA is a specification, but they're basically the same thing and used interchangeably.

DMA is Direct Memory Access, and means data moves between RAM and the hard drive without passing through the CPU first. The CPU simply initiates a request that data be read or written. The controller does the actual data transfer, and lets the CPU know when the transfer is complete. The CPU is free to do other things while it's waiting.

The other method HDDs can use is PIO : Programmed Input / Output. This means the CPU is responsible for moving the data around, like this :

tell HD we'd like to read some data;
while (not done transferring data)
{
get a byte from the HD;
write the byte to memory;
}

As you can see, DMA is a *lot* more efficient than PIO.

ATAPI (usually just called ATA or UltraATA) is "AT Attachment Peripheral Interface." (The AT part refers to the original IBM PC/AT.) It's a specification that defines physical specifications (IDE cables and lengths), electrical voltages and timings for transferring data, and the command set that an ATA device must understand, like "read a sector" and "write a sector."

And finally, IDE is Integrated Drive Electronics, the predecessor to ATA. EIDE is Enhanced IDE, basically the same thing as ATA.

Is that enough info? Sometimes I worry my brain is gonna run out of storage...

frosty: take damiens advice (get more ram instead of new or better ram), he knows his shit!

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aventari
"Q: How do you tell an extrovert computer scientist? A: He looks at _your_ shoes when he talks to you."

quote:

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Originally posted by aventari:
Do you think DDR ram will have that much of an impact on performance right now?
...frosty: take damiens advice (get more ram instead of new or better ram), he knows his shit!

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Thanks for the compliment. That is what working at a computer repair shop will do to ya

I don't have any personal experience with DDR, but from the benchmarks I've seen it looks like it will offer some improvement. At this point, though, a 500+ MHz Athlon / PIII and a GeForce video card is plenty. A faster CPU or memory might get you 8 zillion fps in Quake III, but so what? The human eye can only detect about 20-30fps. Figure you want your average frame rate to be another 50\% above that, in case the game bogs down a bit. That means you need an average of 30-45fps for the game to look smooth. Anything above that is a waste, unless you plan on surfing the Web and watching DVD and playing games all at once...

If you're buying new, it might be worth grabbing the latest, greatest thing. But if you already meet that 500+ MHz spec, then you're fine for a while.

If you want to spend $$$ on your system (and who doesn't), the things that will make you the happiest are probably

1. Memory. It's so cheap that anything less than 256MB is criminal. Don't go over 512MB, though; unless you have a Xeon your CPU can't cache above the 512MB mark and your system will slow down.

2. A fast hard drive. The 7200rpm IBMs are my favorite. Fujitsu is also good. MAxtor is decent. Seagate is crap. Western Digitals are the worst- they're noisy, they go bad if you look at them wrong, and getting a warranty exchange on them is a pain in the ass.

3. A really nice monitor. Get the most expensive one you can, because it will outlast your system. I like ViewSonics. Sonys are also sweet. Get a Trinitron tube (or equivalent; ViewSonic calls theirs "DiamondTron") if you can afford it. Stay away from flat panels; they cost too much and only look good at one resolution (usually something like 1280x1024, which is too high for most games.)

4. A good mouse and keyboard. Keytronics, Logitech, and Microsoft make good keyboards. If you don't have an optical mouse you don't know what you're missing.

5. Scanners are fun. Make sure it's USB, though. The parallel port models are s-l-o-w.

This message has been edited by damien_s_lucifer on November 24, 2000 at 01:49 AM