DUMBASS!!

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"It's not peer pressure, its just your turn." - Unknown

This message has been edited by hyperponic on November 09, 2000 at 02:07 PM

I don't know how to implement, but a lot of people who vote don't have a clue what they are voting for. Maybe voting should be a test! You are given all sorts of questions and you either agree or disagree. It automatically votes for you based on what you believe in.

I'd like to take credit for that, but there was a cool website that did the exact same thing. It asked you 15 questions on the major issues, and a few trust questions, and based on your answers it told you which candidate best suits your beliefs. Kinda cool.

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

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I don't need a compass to tell me what time the wind blows

In australia we have some dumb people who most liberals think move like sheep into the polling booths and vote like good little sheep. but it has been shown that these people actually when they vote raise their IQ by 15 or so points and actually consider the issues and stuff...

but this might not apply to you americans as even doubling the average IQ, it would still be that same...

reman

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People ask me to fix their computer. I do in 5 seconds.
They say "You think your good don't you".
I say "I know I'm good". People always ask stupid questions.

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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >

quote:

---

Originally posted by PersonGuy:
Then it really wouldn't matter if they were stupid, because it would still apply everything to their needs and not who they were lead to by stupid ads. I love it, jim! I really do!

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Yeah, and then eventually the tests would get so complicated that they could tell from your answers what you unconsciously wanted, and thus would be able to declare that you wanted Bush even though you thought you disagreed with him completely...

And after that, they could use the same machines to sense the sentiments of the American people remotely... you could vote without leaving your house.

And eventually through this wonderful science they would be able to determine who the people wanted without bothering to ask any of us, and the machine that decided this would have complete control over the election...

Sorry, doesn't work. You think about the candidates, you make a rational decision, you vote for that person. Programs can help match you to a candidate, but the actual vote still has to be your own choice.

Anyway, this whole thing with people in florida not being able to work out how to use a voting slip when it's hugely fucking obvious how it works (and I've never even touched one) has got me thinking a bit more deeply on an ideal I've come up with before: Don't let stupid people's votes count.

Imagine you've got something wrong with you and you don't know what it is so you go to the hospital to find out. Now, if you've ever been to a hospital waiting room before you'll know what I'm talking about, you have two choices when it comes to soemone making a disgnosis for you. You can either have somebody who's spent six years in medical university and another six years in practise before even being allowed to wear a stethoscope take a look at you and tell you what's wrong by using all the physiological and anatomical knowledge that he has in his bloated, information crammed brain, or you can save waiting and just go to that guy who's got a suit jacket on back to front, who deliberatly has bad handwriting (a common problem with doctors, as if you didn't know) and who has the same physiological and anatomical knowledge as me who thinks that leeches actually do work to cure ailments?

Are you going to put life and death decisions in the hands of a stupid person?

Even when it's your life?

Ofcourse not, so why let them get away with it when it comes to election time?

In order to solve this curse, I have come up with a solution. No, not eugenics, although the idea of only intelligent people being allowed to mate does sound very appealing to me, but a special kind of test that voters don't know they're taking when they go in the ballot box. They get given their ballot slip and there's false names on the slip. If they vote for them then it doesn't really matter because it's not going to change anything. But there's also misspelt names for candidates and also made up names for parties. So under Republicans, it might say Bust instead of Bush. People may vote for this guy called Bust thinking it's Bush but never mind, they're stupd, ballot gets binned. They may also vote for Al Gore. Nothing wrong with that, is there? Well, there wouldn't be if he wasn't campaigning on behalf of the Paedophiles of America Party. Somebody votes for him, ballot gets binned, 'Stupid Idiot' is stamped on their government record which means that they just get turned away from the voting office come next election. They won't get angry, they're too stupid, just feed them some crap about how it's actually just been turned into a culling area for some of the cities population and that only stupid people are being killed with antharax so he's lucky becasue he's too intelligent to get the treatment. He feels good, the country's safe, he'll have forgotten that he hasn't voted because somebody paid him a compliment.

Problem solved! There are proper candidate names and parties on the slip also for clever people to see, so don't worry. Only people with sense are allowed to vote along with those without reading problems or dyslexia or blind people (okay so there are a few flaws, but it's worth it in the end).

Any thoughts?
cheers

I was taking the piss. The problem I've got is with people who don't bother to find out what they're voting for or why they're doing it. It's probably worse in Britain. If you don't have much money and you're from a working class background then you vote Labour (kind of like the Democrats), if you're rich and upper or middle class then you vote Conservative (kind of like the Republicans). Well, this is what you do if you're a fool and unfortunately that's what most of the people in this world are.

Why should people who haven't found out anything about who they're voting for except for thinking that that party is 'on their side' be able to have as much power as someone who's sat down and read through the manifestos and watched the debates and buys decent newspapers and doesn't watch the news just for the 'And Finally' bit? Stupid people are the people who want 'gays to be banned' because their dad says they're evil and that they bum little boys. They go and picket companies that do cancer research because a doctor broke a needle in a dog once when he was testing a new possible cancer eradicating injection. Stupid people don't like Gore because he's a bit boring and don't like Bush because ... well, there aren't any reasons to like Bush are there really?

Anyway, that question based voting thing sounds good because it will make the electorate think about what they're doing rather than vote for the guy with the most hair or something inconsequential like that.

Oh, and why can these people in Florida realise they voted for Buchanan when they couldn't figure out how to vote for Gore?
cheers

quote:

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Originally posted by LazyGit:
Oh, and why can these people in Florida realise they voted for Buchanan when they couldn't figure out how to vote for Gore?
cheers

---

Probably because 19,000 ballots are said to have been punched twice - once for Gore, once for Buchanan...logic, it seems, strikes again.

However, I just want to take this friendly, albeit sarcastic, moment to express my utter disdain for the heehaws that accidentaly voted twice. Alas, they are morons, and need not vote anyhow.

second, jim, your idea is good in theory, but while it shouldnt affect it, a candidate's attitude and personality do make a difference in who you vote for. even if bush agreed with me on 100\% of the issues, but say, he was an antisemite, then i wouldnt vote for him. based on your test thing, i would have. maybe a better idea would be to have the test, and it suggests the candidate, but you would still ultimately get to pick yourself.

and lazygit, youre post suggested stupid people shouldnt be allowed to vote (yes, i know, im repeating the obvious). being stupid isnt really something someone can help, its usually a genetic problem (unless they like drugs too much). being black or a woman is also genetic, its not something you can help. i was attempting to mock you, although you obviously didnt get it. voting is a privelege, yes, but its one that you have until you intentionally do something to lose it (i.e. dont register). taking it away without giving them a chance to keep it is the same as regressing back to the pre civil war era, where so few people could vote.

Here in Canada, we have 5 major parties, The Liberals, the Canadian Alliance (like Reform, very right wing), Conservatives, New Democrats, and the Bloc de Québécois (fairly left wing, centred around Quebec's Problems). There is lots of variety and different views among the parties of parliament, while it seems like, down in the states, there are two parties with extremely similar goals and views, and it's really a matter of whom to vote for. Bush or Gore, nice list of choices...

Any person who pays attention to what's REALLY going on would vote Nader.

Just my two cents.

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"If it doesn't work, hit it with a hammer."

You say it's different than not letting people of a certain gender or ethnic origin vote, but it's not. In the end, all it is is discrimination.

You get what you vote for, and if whom ever you voted into office fucks up in the long run, then you can't say shit about it...

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"If it doesn't work, hit it with a hammer."

Anyway, you've got a point Sithee. I've never pulled anything out of my ass, and I'm not going to start now. You got me there. Mabey the parties would just try to make sure that an a-hole wasn't representing them... I don't know...

But don't forget to see the beauty in the idea. 2nd and 3rd and 4th and 5th parties would all have an equally fair chance! Some of those guys I'm SURE you liked, but of course you didn't know you were out there. With this in place, the major job of the campain would be to atually TALK about the issues and litterally grab the oppions of other people. You'd have to make them see it your way. And with 6,7,8,15 canditates that would be VERY interesting, and I garuantee we'd get a kick ass prez! Spread the message folks. If this is do-able, I WANT IT!

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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >

1. Candidates are not guranteed to actually follow up on the positions they claim to have.

2. It is nearly impossible for such a machine to be created without a built-in bias.

3. Many people would feel that the machine wwas taking away their freedom to decide.

I agree that it would be cool to have some sort of software or web page that would help a person find a candidate who matched their opinions. But the actual decision of who to vote for has to be left to that person.

quote:

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Originally posted by Sithiee:
first, as i mentioned in one of the other threads, some people actually tried to get new ballots to vote right, but the people working there didnt let them, and stuf their fucked up ballots in the box.

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exactly, so then they file lawsuits against the state for making bad ballots? does that make any sense? if that happens, then you go after the people who stuffed your ballot in the box even after you said that you fucked up and punched two holes.

since no one is doing that, it leads me to believe that those claims were made up.

yes, you would have to be completely and utterly stupid to fuck < those ballots > up, but they are still illegal under florida state law (punch holes must be right of the candidates name), and that makes this whole thing even worse. personally i hope Bush wins, (preferred Browne but there's no chance in hell of that happening). no matter who is president these next four years, they won't get much done since the house and senate are so evenly split.

and now, it looks like other states will be having recounts and the like... gore is down in new mexico, etc. its turning into "if you don't like the outcome of an election just have a recount"

this whole thing is one big fucking mess, and its hardly even started.

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"If it doesn't work, hit it with a hammer."

quote:

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Originally posted by Bozeman:
Don't sue the people working at the registers, they were just trying to do their job.

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i never said that they should sue them, but if they didn't let you use another ballot (provided that you would rip the first one up) then it is the workers' fault, not the ballots'. even though they are technically illegal.

and if you honestly didn't know which hole to punch, there is nothing stopping you from asking...

At least Hair agrees with me that the format of the ballots with the holes in the center is illegal. I doubt it will be contested because of the hand recount, though.

Have all the recounts you like, if the other guy has more votes, you lose. That's why Gore deserves the recounts, because so many things happened that calls the numbers into question. No one is absolutely 100\% sure that Bush got more. If we were, or if the margin of error was less than the number of votes the winner is leading by, then the recount would be unnecesary. But the victory margin is so small, and the vote descrpancy so big, that a recount is the best thing to do.

'oops i fucked up and voted for joe camel' is not an excuse, because you ARE ALLOWED to get a new ballot if you FUCK UP. anybody who fucks up and turns the ballot in without getting a new one right then and there should have to deal with the fact that you don't always get a 'do over' for being an idiot.

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kuru
'sex is one of the most beautiful and natural things that money can buy' - steve martin

quote:

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Originally posted by pengu1nn:
not everyone wants to look like a jackass in front of "however many" people just to get a new ballot. i know i wouldn't

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Actually you look like more of a jack-ass by throwing away your vote. If you really thought you could punch 2 holes in the ballot and it would just 'magically' know how to distiguish the 2 you are a jack-ass and stupid... Come on now. Get serious.

Sample ballots were mailed out and approved. Learn to read before you go vote. This is fucking ridiculous!!

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

quote:

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Originally posted by Sithiee:
your vote should still count, no matter how uneducated you are. thats the idea behind it...

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Bad ideas die hard.

It's not that stupid people shouldn't be allowed to vote, it's just that exceptions shouldn't be made for those who make idiotic mistakes. And for those who claim the poll administrators refused to give them another ballot despite the fact they are legally entitled to one...well, I remain skeptical.

It just sounds like a portion of the Al "Sour Grapes" Gore crowd making up a bunch of nonsense to see their savior in office. I mean, if that did happen, why didn't you make a scene then? I would have called the cops, or a least a lawyer. Regardless, it would have been at that particular moment, not after the candidate I support looses. One's credibility severely diminishes in that sense.

quote:

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Originally posted by Sithiee:
it means that republicans need to just concede to the hand count and let it be

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yeah, a hand count has a far less margin for error than a machine count does... oh, nevermind, it doesn't

and machines aren't biased. votes could be not only be given to the candidate that the counter wants to win, but they [counters] could make a mistake when they are trying to decide which candidate the voter actually meant to punch.

i don't think a hand recount would be the final say...

fuck ups do not = stupidity

i think we should set a standard on how to vote. same ballot / same order / same year to year (of course the names will change). not this county to county bullshit. it is a national vote so the "national" government should have control of how the ballots will be set up.

quote:

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Originally posted by jim:
Actually you look like more of a jack-ass by throwing away your vote.

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my county threw away my vote. i'm still not fucking registered and i bet i will have to send that shit in again. and as i stated not everyone is a social butterfly who wants to look stupid because they fucked up something that simple

quote:

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jim
If you really thought you could punch 2 holes in the ballot and it would just 'magically' know how to distiguish the 2 you are a jack-ass and stupid... Come on now. Get serious.

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it would help if it could magically know but thats just not going to happen. human error isn't going to go away either. while i like to think i could figure out a simple ballot and that i would know better than to make 2 punches, there are people that just don't know any better. and i was not aware of the fact that you could get another ballot and i am sure that there are others in the same boat.

quote:

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jim
Sample ballots were mailed out and approved. Learn to read before you go vote. This is fucking ridiculous!!

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sample ballots, big ballots, small ballots, black ballots, ugly ballots, small ballots with pretty colors and a picture of my ass, it dosen't matter what kind of ballot it was. it was wrong according to FL law. i'm not one to bring up the law very often but this doesn't just affect my future it affects yours, hers, his, and their future as well.

it's all common sense. i looked at the ballot everyone is crying about. i don't think i would have messed it up, but it was a pretty stupid idea for a ballot (i personally think gov. bush of FL riged it that way so gore would lose votes but thats another thread)

This message has been edited by pengu1nn on November 14, 2000 at 11:29 AM

This is what the ballot looked like.

The real point is, is that NOW is not the time to be complaining. They didn't want to look like a jackass in front of a few people at the voting booth, but now they'll jump on national TV and show what real jackasses they are.

It's just all bullshit.

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

quote:

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Originally posted by Sithiee:
if you dont know what a chad is, you can just shup now.

---

You probably didn't know what a chad is either until you read it in the news. I certainly didn't, and my vocabulary isn't exactly below average. So, for the enlightenment of the rest of the people here:

chad, n. A person who uses recently learned technical terms without defining them in order to appear more intelligent than those around him; synonyms: sesquipedalian; pedant; Sithee...

loser, n. Someone who assumes that just because they dont know something, no one else did, so they try and make it look like that person didnt originally to make up for their small penis. i.e. Michael.

quote:

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Originally posted by Sithiee:
to make up for their small penis. i.e. Michael.

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*sob* Do you know how much it hurts to always have people bring that up? *Begins crying.* Oh, those nasty awful hurting words... </sarcasm>

OK, I'm sorry. Your comment that seemed to assume that everyone should know what a "chad" is sort of annoyed me. But you're right, I made a snap judgement. I'll try not to act like such a chad in the future...

these are just 5 ways that in some places a vote will count, and a machine will not count it. according to my source (washingtong post) the first three are counting in palm beach. if you dont know what a chad is, you can just shup now.

and yes, people are biased, but there are also representatives from each party (1 per party per 2 counters) there to keep it more centered.

maybe they should either a) get a better system, or b) have the machines separate the ones it decides not to count, so they can be rechecked by hand.

quote:

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Originally posted by reman:
wow jim, you have really l33t ms paint skillz

---

Actually I stole that from < http://www.paulszoldra.com/ > which I found by visiting < http://www.bastardize.net/ >

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

quote:

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Originally posted by jim:
Ooooooooooooooooo that's right.

This is what the ballot looked like.

[image of jim's stolen ballot here ]

The real point is, is that NOW is not the time to be complaining. They didn't want to look like a jackass in front of a few people at the voting booth, but now they'll jump on national TV and show what real jackasses they are.

It's just all bullshit.

---

hrm, can't really argue with that.

Is it then right for people to complain about the design after the results of the election are known, and attempt to sue for redress and a possible revote which would probably decide the presidency over a nonlegitimate and stupid question about 0.02\% of the vote?

Case closed.

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Just your generic meaningless signature. Mix with 2 quarts water and stir till evenly coated.

What's the bet Al Gore cries on national TV when he loses? Did you hear what he said to Bush on the phone when he retracted his concession? 'Now, there's no need to get nippy.'

You want someone who talks like that to run your country?
cheers

BTW, this is what Bush talks like: < http://politics.slate.msn.com/Features/bushisms/bushisms.asp >

the sample is a xerox copy of the ballot. it looks EXACTLY like the one in the booth. you can take it with you when you go into the booth. you can take anything you want with you into the booth. you can even take someone else in there to punch your hole for you if you don't think you can do it properly. you can also fuck up three times and get three new ballots by just asking for them.

that's why i have no sympathy for those people in florida.

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kuru
'sex is one of the most beautiful and natural things that money can buy' - steve martin

quote:

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Originally posted by Sithiee:
people did ask, and they were denied...but since they screwed up at all, its ok, right?

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That is just a fucking lie. Period.

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

I'm glad they didn't give them another one. That's voting twice! Hello? People??!?!? Please wake the fuck up!

I seriously doubt people punched the wrong hole, and before casting their ballot, asked for a new card and were denied. That is just bullshit.

Sithee... Were you one of these idiots, is that how you know?

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

Have you seen the disputed ballot paper? How fucking more uncomplicated (probably not a proper word) can it get? It says a candidate's name in capital letters and then an arrow pointing to a hole that has to be punched to vote for the candidate. You don't need to be a brain surgeon to work that one out. I know 5 year olds who could figure it out and I don't even know any five year olds (doesn't really make sense but you get the point).

Who gives a fuck about chads, holes, crackheads and ballot papers when the real problem is stupid people not being able to figure out a simple ballot paper.

These people can take part in the lottery but they can't vote for the right person at an election. That's a pretty sad indictment of your scoiety.
cheers

Now they are doing Hand re-counts in Democratic counties?!?!!

Hello??????? It's so fucking obvious what Gore is trying to do!!!

Which is also why a week ago 54\% of people surveyed supported Gore in his efforts to ask for a re-count.

Now a mere 27\% support him.

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

They were even given instructions and 100\% of the students got 100\% of the answers correct. 10 for 10.

They were smart enough at age 6 to follow the arrow next to the name, and mark the appropriate box WITHOUT even being told.

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

If you follow the directions, your vote counts. If not, it doesn't.

It's really that fucking simple!

All the necessary directions were given, if you didn't follow the directions, your vote does NOT count! Period!

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bozeman:
Some machine errors were because the machine did not punch all the way through the card.

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It wasn't the machine. It was the voter. The machine just reads the cards.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bozeman:
It is called a dimple CHAD or an indented CHAD, and these are also people who followed directions. Should their votes be discounted? NO!

---

These people did NOT follow the directions, which states that the chad must be removed fromt he card to be read by the machine.

No their votes should NOT count.

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

It is amazing that some people would deny the will of the voters simply because it is inconvenient. It is speculated that Gore had 1,500 votes (source: CNN) that were counted improperly due to these kinds of machine errors. MACHINE ERRORS!!! The voters should not have to pay because the machine did not work correctly.

Also, on the overseas military ballots, those should have been discounted on the same premise of: FOLLOWING DIRECTIONS. The postmarks were NOT on time. Anyone in the states with an overdue postmark would not be counted, so why should these?

The recounts are neccesary, and they will happen. I would rather have a recount and have it show that Bush actually won, than never know for sure.

I agree with postmarks after election day. I don't agree with the ones that have NO POSTMARK, as not all military bases can provide postmarks.

I know, because I was IN the military.

I was however satisfied with the way the Secretary of the State asked the counties to handle the postmarkLESS ballots.

If the ballot did not have a postmark, but was recieved by November 10th, meaning it was more than likely mailed on election day. She instructed them to count those ballots. She did however leave it up to the counties discretion.

Point being. The laws, the directions, all of this has been laid out in black and white.

I'm sure that by recounting in 3 democratic counties Gore can pick up enough BULLSHIT votes to STEAL this election. However if a state wide recount was issued, both candidates would be picking up votes, just as they did in the original recount, and Bush would more than likely still be on top.

For you to sit here and tell me it fair the way they are conducting these recounts in Florida, make me fucking sick. And makes you a fucking idiot!!

What they are doing is un-constitutional!! They are treating SOME ballots differently than others!

It's fucking bullshit.

I almost hope Gore gets elected. He will almost certainly be assisinated! Thank god!

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

quote:

---

Originally posted by jim:
If the ballot did not have a postmark, but was recieved by November 10th, meaning it was more than likely mailed on election day. She instructed them to count those ballots. She did however leave it up to the counties discretion.

---

I'd also like to point out, that soldiers stationed overseas, or on ship, could have a ballot with no postmark. Mailed the ballot 3 days before the election even took place and STILL have not been received by November 10th. So although I agree with the Secretary of the States decision. There really are a lot of completely valid ballots that are being tossed out.

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

Also, if Gore's recounts win him the election, he did not steal it. If he had the votes, then he won fair and square, and it could be argued that Bush is trying to steal it now. Bush is purposely delaying the recounts, and trying for a disqualification because they are taking too long.

This is not unconstitutional. Recounts are allowed in practically every election. The individual counties are being recounted because there was a question as to whether or not the numbers were correct in that area. If Bush really did lose votes elsewhere, he should ask for a recount in those particular counties. No votes are getting "special treatment," the recounted ones are getting the fair treatment NOW that they did not get last time.

Finally, a question: If Bush believes he REALLY won, why does he fear a recount so much? If he did win, he should welcome a recount, because that would prove once and for all that he got more votes. However, he is tying up the recount and trying to get it thrown out. These are not the actions of someone confident of his victory, as Bush pretends now.

That was most retard comment to pass through this board.

You now rank right up there with ZAC503 or whoever that other jackass was.

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

And before you even say anything, do you really think they would accept any hand written postmarks? No, no probably not

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When my flying days are over, and my death has come to pass
I hope they bury me upside down, so the whole damn world can kiss my ass

also, jim, if gore was in the lead, and bush lost the votes, would you be singing a different tune?

I'd like Bush to win for the tax cuts I'd get, but other than that, I could give a shit less!

And it is to bad for the military people, just like it should be tough shit for those dumb fucks in Florida.

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jim
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder
< Brews and Cues >

As for the dimpled ballots, the INVENTOR of the voting machine used in Florida came out tho say that the machine error may ber due to over-usage of the machine. The pin is supposed to punch through the ballot, which is held in place by a hard plastic card behind. However, if the card was worn down due to the fact that the pin had been hitting it over and over, year after year, there would be a worn out area underneath. Because there is nothing to hold it up, the card was pushed down with the needle, hence the dimpled CHAD.

If you want to find out WTF i'm talking about, flip back and forht between MSNBC and CNN today, they should say it again, and they will also keep you up to date on the election news.

Too bad Nader didn't get the 5\%......