Topic: Hey Wolfy
started by: Uberkommando
Posted by Uberkommando on Apr. 21 2002,01:55
Working on a second Shitty Online Game, and this one involves modern weapons. I don't know crap about them.Anyway, are there any machine guns, shotguns, and semi-auto rifles out there on the arms market you could tell me about? Can't find any really good websites, and I'm not taking a CS whore's word for it.
edit: Oh, yeah, forgot about kuru. Any pistol somewhere between a Glock and something powerful, I guess I'll say Desert Eagle, that any druglord could get his hands on?
Posted by Non on Apr. 21 2002,03:25
I prolly don't have the same level of technical knowledge, but I do know some cool guns. Here are a few of my personal favorites:< Beretta 92F > (in nickel) This gun goes head to head with Glock on quality and performance, plus it looks cooler than a glock imo.
< Barrett M82A1 > Snipers wet dream. Actual Retail Price; $7,300.
< HK G11 > Advanced Combat Rifle. Just look at the stats on this thing... It is made for getting 3 rounds downrange before the recoil of the first round even moves the gun (+2000 rpm during 3 round burst). It uses caseless ammo so there is no need for an ejection port. Caseless ammo is the next step in ammunition. This gun has some very cool mechanisms/layout.
[edit] I never played CS.
Posted by Cyrino on Apr. 21 2002,07:39
Don't know if anyone else has seen it, but I thought it was pretty cool. Presenting ATK's < OICW >.
Posted by Bozeman on Apr. 21 2002,14:55
All you need is 100 caliber caseless armor piercing explosive ammunition, and youv'e got a BOLTGUN! w00tah!/end 40k reference
Posted by Wolfguard on Apr. 21 2002,15:15
| Quote (Uberkommando @ 20 April 2002,20:55) |
| Working on a second Shitty Online Game, and this one involves modern weapons. I don't know crap about them. Anyway, are there any machine guns, shotguns, and semi-auto rifles out there on the arms market you could tell me about? Can't find any really good websites, and I'm not taking a CS whore's word for it. edit: Oh, yeah, forgot about kuru. Any pistol somewhere between a Glock and something powerful, I guess I'll say Desert Eagle, that any druglord could get his hands on? |
check the HK website. They make the best in the world from sub guns to sniper rifles.
The only way to get a better sniper rifle is to have it hand made by a gun smithe.
mosberg(my personal choice, 2 thumbs up and 4 dead bodies) makes the best shotguns. Never had one fail on me when it was needed. "0" or "1" buckshot and slugs mixed in the 8 shot mag. its nice to have the spread and when the target is off balance put an ounce and a quater of lead into its heart. That bastard will NOT be getting up again...ever.
if you want to stop 5 people with 5 shots look for a bowen 50. its a .50 revolver. always fires, never jambs.
Just remember. the same round fired from any gun will do about the same amount of damage to a person. a better gun just means you will be able to hit the same spot time and time again.
when shooting starts someone is going to the hospital or the morgue.
DPU/tungstun cored bullets dont even notice kevlar on their way through.
Ill see what i can find for you.
Posted by Bob_the_Cannibal on Apr. 22 2002,01:21
Yeah, wolf, but DU/TC rounds (5.56) don't do shit to unarmored opponents. US soldiers in Mogadishu had 5.56 "greentip" rounds (an AP version). unarmored somalis had to be shot somrthing like 12 times on average, to die. unless a CNS hit was scored, or massive blood loss... However, I'd have to agree with you on the point about HK.
mp5's are good, the H&K G3 is a decent rifle.
the g11 isn't even in production, Alliant Techsystems has yet to deliver an OICW (doesn't HK make them, too?)
Deagles are so overused.
< http://hkpro.com/contents.htm > will point you in the right direction.
also, you might want to try securityarms < http://www.securityarms.com > they have a pretty complete listing of modern weapons.
Posted by veistran on Apr. 22 2002,07:10
wtf would be the point of a DU/TC round in 5.56mm ? You'd get essentially the same effect from a steel cored ap round at considerably less cost.
Posted by Uberkommando on Apr. 22 2002,14:18
Thanks Wolfy, great stuff!And if anybody wants to help me attatch ratings to these guns, I'm pretty open...
Posted by Bob_the_Cannibal on Apr. 23 2002,02:52
| Quote (veistran @ 21 April 2002,23:10) |
| wtf would be the point of a DU/TC round in 5.56mm ? You'd get essentially the same effect from a steel cored ap round at considerably less cost. |
DU or TC in 5.56 is nice for lightly armored things, like generators, people, jeeps, etc. a steel core wouldn't penetrate a generator's engine block. DU or ungsten Core would. also: shelf life. DU/TC doesn't rust, steel core does. the military is looking at all these factors.
Posted by veistran on Apr. 23 2002,04:10
| Quote (Bob_the_Cannibal @ 22 April 2002,20:52) | ||
DU or TC in 5.56 is nice for lightly armored things, like generators, people, jeeps, etc. a steel core wouldn't penetrate a generator's engine block. DU or ungsten Core would. also: shelf life. DU/TC doesn't rust, steel core does. the military is looking at all these factors. |
Really it boils down to the fact that the 5.56mm round will only ever have limited effectiveness outside of eliminating soft targets. So why waste the money on fighting a lost cause, instead of providing a grunt with something more effective to use in the event that he needs to take out a hardened target and let him carry around ammo that will be more useful in his primary role of taking out soft targets.
Posted by Bob_the_Cannibal on Apr. 23 2002,22:57
thus, the reason behind the m-79/m-209.but if that were the case, the US would still use 7.62, only, in JHP.
the reason? we want to wound, not kill. dead people can wait. wounded need to be evaced, cared for behind the lines, re-trained, and sent back up.
Posted by Non on Apr. 24 2002,10:38
this just occured to me... Explosive bullets (black Rhinos I think they called them back in the day, could be wrong about name) were outlawed along with mustard gas and all that shit in the geneva conventions rules or war, yet isn't the US military developing exactly that?They are working on a 2 man portable machine turret that uses 2 types of ammo (a button for each) one is armor piecing and the other other is explosive. It uses a laser range finder to determine where to explode so as to take out someone behind a barrier or a small group of targets with shapnel...
Anyway if anyone knows more, please respond.
[edit] < after doing a little research;
>
Black Rhinos are the name for a fairly modern body armor piecing small caliber bullet which is illegal.
Exploding bullets were forbidden by the St. Petersburg Declaration 1868 and by the U.S. Army Ordnance Department after the US Civil war.
There are a lot of loop holes though; as long as the round weighs 400 grams it can be explosive and there is a few rules based on judgement calls which balance the strategic value versus the human suffering it will cause:
"International conferences meeting at The Hague in the Netherlands in 1899 and 1907 distilled the St. Petersburg principles into the familiar principle that it is forbidden to use weapons that cause “unnecessary suffering” or “superfluous injury.” This principle, which is also part of customary international law, was reaffirmed by a diplomatic conference in Geneva, Switzerland, in 1977"
Make Love Not War!
Posted by Nikita on Apr. 24 2002,16:30
hey, Black Rhinos - I vaguely remember reading about them way back when I was in middle school! 
Posted by kuru on Apr. 24 2002,18:24
Slowing the enemy down in actual battle is a little different than slowing the enemy down in a game. When you have actual troops to suffer injuries and have to absorb resources to be carried off the battlefield and cared for, wounding can be more important than killing the opposition. In game situations, unless you're actually devoting a player's resources to clearing the field of his wounded 'comrades', I'd suggest weaponry with maximum kill instead of severe wounds. However, if you do want to institute the reality of carrying those who've been shot but are still alive in for medical treatment, and you're going to count that as an expenditure of one player's resources, then I'd go for things that do a lot of soft tissue damage and specifically produce injuries that cause internal bleeding.
I'd go for something hydroshock against unarmored troops, something that's going to expand and fragment in the body. It'll tumble around through soft tissue and cause damage. It'll hit organs and cause internal bleeding. It'll wound.5.56 NATO has the propensity to riccochet around inside the body and remain inside the skin, doing quite a bit of damage to tissues. It causes internal injury that does not necessarily kill instantly, thus causing the enemy to devote his resources to picking up the injured and away from fighting. It takes no resources to leave a body behind, but it takes more than one soldier to carry wounded soldiers.
I am also highly partial to the H&K MP5 (ok so it's because I fired one) select fire rifle. Roughly 6.5 lbs, firing 9mm x 19 ammunition. It's not a heavy gun, it's beautiful to look at, it's reliable and fairly accurate and not too terribly difficult to control. I like it. It's fun to shoot.
The Remington 700 Police and SR8 are pretty ass kickin for special applications, and I have to say I've had good luck with my plain ol' Remington 700. It's balls on accurate, but good optics go a long way to distance shooting, or so I think.
And I can't discuss arms without at least a mention of the M1 Garand. I have a hardon for it. Gorgeous piece of craftsmanship, that one.
Handguns.. where do I start?
Glock 22 and Glock 23 are sweet, I've had occasion to fire both of them. They're .40 caliber, reliable, hard to break, and will go through the wringer pretty well. The price tag isn't tiny, so they're not gonna be the cheapest thing for drug lords to be carrying around, but a .40 caliber packs some serious punch. If you want a less expensive (but not cheap) brand name to look at, Ruger's .45 caliber series (P97 models) are a little less pricey than Glocks, and are tough, reliable little buggers. I'm pretty in love with my Ruger P95DC (pre-ban manufacture = high cap magazines) 9mm and Federal hollowpoint ammo. Mrrrow.
And now I must go change my undies.
Posted by veistran on Apr. 24 2002,22:38
at 400 grams it's a "cannon" round. The 5.56mm NATO isn't likely to expand or fragment because of the faster rifle twisting on all modern 5.56MM NATO arms and the fact that the current 5.56mm NATO round has a steel core (this is to give it ap parity with the 7.62mm). Anyway, there's different ammo for different purposes, but I'd say a good compromise between maximum expansion and AP would be a 7.62mm NATO in EFMJ. Remember, it's maximum "steel" on target that matters more than the maximum "steel" in the air.And yes, the M1 was a great rifle firing a great bullet. Gotta love the .30-06 ... as far as pistol/smg rounds go, I think the .45ACP is overlooked.
Posted by Wolfguard on Apr. 25 2002,14:11
Ok, the grenade launcher the us milatary uses is the m79. The one mounted under an m16 is a m203. Both will fire
WP smoke
APDP (armor pericing dual purpose) normal grenade.
Smoke
Flares
buckshot
You think a 12ga shotgun can toss out some buckshot. this thing is like a hand held claymore mine
Great for helping clear large open spaces of stupid people that dont speek english.the 45 is a great round. Problem is the guns that fire them suck out of the box. takes about 5-800 bucks to make this gun worth using.
the 9mm is a good idea because you can find rounds anyplace.
40 and 41express are the best on the market. Great knockdown, accurate, realiable.
if you are shooting at me i hope you are using a D-eagle. after 2-3 shots ill be able to walk up to you, take it from you and use it in its effective mode. as a club.
As far as rifles go.
Anything by winchester that is bolt action. granted, im going to spend a grand more on it to rebuild it to my specs but im going to hit what i shoot at all the way out to 1500 meters.
the sks from the same people that brought you the ak-47. Nice, light weight, and breaks down into a suitcase. With a good scope and a bull barrell (thicker) with a bit more twist this thing is good to about 1200 meters. After that the rounds really start to go low left for some reason. (1200m is about 14 clicks up and right on the scope. 1300m is 35 clicks up and right) Somethign about the balistics of the bullet it fires.
Barret Light 50. if you ever get the chance to shoot one of these monsters do it. it will shoot through a kevlar helmet at 1500 meters. it will go straight through and only move the helmet about 6'. The rounds that it fires are a MUCH hotter version the M2 machine gun fires. if you belt up 100 of these things it will turn a M2's barrell to white hot slag.
as far as handguns go. I like the 1911 (45) and the 92f from baretta.
you still cant beat a glock but ill stick to what i know i can hit things with.
Posted by kuru on Apr. 25 2002,15:46
I've been avoiding getting a 1911 ....Because I know that once I do, I will spend the all of my money and some I don't have modifying it until it's everything I ever wanted in a pistol and I orgasm every time I see it.
Posted by Wolfguard on Apr. 25 2002,16:47
i dont think you will orgasm when you see it. Get wet, yes.maybe when you pick it up and definantly when you shoot it
Posted by kuru on Apr. 25 2002,16:50
Well yeah. But in general, guns make me horny.
Posted by veistran on Apr. 25 2002,18:07
I've had the oppprtunity to fire the sks, I really liked the feel of that gun.
Posted by Uberkommando on Apr. 25 2002,22:11
Okay, here's the list I've got so far.For pistols, it's the Glock 22, Colt 1911, Beretta 92F, and Bowen .50. Dropped the DE -- didn't want to use it much in any case.
Only have Mosberg for shotguns, and not even a model for that one. Could use some more, and a model for the Mosberg.
Got the MP5, Ingram MAC-10, and IMI Uzi (I feel dirty using that word) for submachine guns. Could use another.
The assault rifles are the AK47, M4 (is that available on the arms market?), HK33, and G36. I think we're set there.
Remington 700, SR9, SKS and Barett Light .50 for rifles, and I think we're set there, too.
So, that just leaves machine guns. All I could find were the M-249 and MG43, neither of which I think are on the market.
So, any ideas?
Posted by veistran on Apr. 25 2002,23:48
mossberg 590 - pump action, 9 round magazine
Posted by Bob_the_Cannibal on Apr. 26 2002,02:23
| Quote (Uberkommando @ 25 April 2002,14:11) |
| Got the MP5, Ingram MAC-10, and IMI Uzi (I feel dirty using that word) for submachine guns. Could use another. ... M4 (is that available on the arms market?) ... So, that just leaves machine guns. All I could find were the M-249 and MG43, neither of which I think are on the market. So, any ideas? |
RE: subbies: uzi's are not bad. Tec-9's are. tec 9's are crap. but 'bangers use them.
re: Rifles: M4: yes, but your average 'banger isn't going to get an m4. ditto most of the list
RE: GPMG's: the 42 is avalible, the mg-43 is HK's newest, lt looks like the m-249, almost. HK won't sell the 43 to anyone, tho.
Posted by Wolfguard on Apr. 27 2002,16:49
| Quote (Bob_the_Cannibal @ 25 April 2002,21:23) |
| HK won't sell the 43 to anyone, tho. |
Last heard this one is still in testing with nato and the US.
Mac 10s suck. they are fast but after about 2k rounds they start to jamb. Uzi is a good piece but a little dirt and they start to jamb.
Come to think of it most SMGs are tempramental at best.
forgot the CAWS. Close Assault Weapon System.
12ga full auto. thing is sweet but make sure your wearing at least a flack jacket. Fireing this thing is the only thing worse than being infront of it. Its ported to keep the recoil going straight back. it does not climb on full auto. it just keeps pounding your sholder into jelly and the guys in front of you into red mist.
Good stuff. Last version of this they were playing with was belt fed and based loosly on the 249. had feed problems due to overheating that they were trying to work out. (chamber would expand and the breach would not. spent shell would expand to fill the chamber and could not get past the breach. when it cooled you could knock the shell out but the barrell would then be loose.)
Posted by veistran on Apr. 27 2002,22:35
hrmm... for GPMG what about the FN MAG58 aka M240
Posted by Bob_the_Cannibal on Apr. 28 2002,03:33
wolf: CAWS is r33t. (edit: isn't the CAWS program closed?)a better way would be a pedestal mount, gas/recoil operated hybrid chaingun. 4-6 barrels at 100RPM each, shooting 12ga slugs can definitely f*ck sh*t up...
heat? put some fan blades in between the barrels and the center. Barrels spin, air blows backwards, cooling off the breech and the barrels themselves...
/me needs to go into weapons R&D
Posted by veistran on Apr. 28 2002,07:31
yeah, they closed CAWS in the 80's I believe.