------------------
A witty saying proves nothing.
Voltaire

In many parts of the country, the "melting pot" idea has been scrapped in favor of a "multicultural" society, where each group is distinct. (Separate but equal, anyone?)

Still haven't figured out what they're really driving at.

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When 1337 hax0rs start impaling each other with swords and typing code with a hook on one hand, then they can modify the term "pirate."

b) our culture is no longer a melting pot because certain political groups *ahem* seem to think that forcing diversity while at the same time reinforcing culturual and moral relativism is a good idea. imagine that. instead of getting everyone to all believe in the same thing and to fight/work/mate with each other, get a bunch of people in one country to all hate each other, and that way everyone will be better off! we wouldn't even need any of this "national pride" stuff you probably heard about somewhere.

...

well it sure worked well in eastern europe.

...

hey speaking of which, didn't we just fight a war there to end some ethnic cleansing that was going down? I wonder what caused that?

quote:

---

Originally posted by ic0n0:
to me out nation doesn’t seem to allow black people or minorities to clam any other ancestry

---

In my experience, it's not always our nation that does not allow minorities to claim other ethnicity, it's often the people themselves. Both are to blame.

I personally have no problem calling myself an American, even though my ancestors came from somewhere else. Nor do I have a problem calling any black, white, yellow, brown, red, green, or purple person an American.

I've been in college for six years now (yes, I did graduate once, now on my Master's), and I'm sick to death of political correctness and multiculturalism. This may come as a surprise, but as a white, middle-class, male in the University setting, I actually sometimes get treated like I'm less important than everyone else. Everyone is so concerned about not offending the africans, asians, hispanics, women, etc. that they forget the greatest thing about college: we're all here, therefore we all are equal. I'm no better or worse, no more or less deserving, than any other student here. Some profs get it, some don't. Some employees get it, some don't. Some administrators get it, some don't.

Also, it seems to me to be a strange disparity. Some people want to be Americans to fit in, but want to retain any special "privileges" that thier minority status grants them. I don't know.

I'm an American. Are you? Yes? Ok, great, then let's be Americans together. What? so your skin is a slightly different color, so what? Are you an American? Yes? Ok.

It's not that hard, folks.

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For birth control, I like to rely on my personality...

quote:

---

Still haven't figured out what they're really driving at.

---

its one of marx's bag'o'tricks. it's on page of the communist manifesto, if you have that handy.

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A witty saying proves nothing.
Voltaire

quote:

---

Originally posted by ic0n0:
We need to change our culture and accept the culture of these other groups into out own then things might change and we might become truly American.

---

So then how would you define your new "American Culture"? Who should decide which aspects of which culture become part of the "mainstream"? I'm not trying to thump the conservative bible here, I'd just like more details than politic-speak I hear all the time.

CK, I'm quite familiar with the textbook Quinn responses. I was looking for their reasoning that didn't conflict with earlier civil rights struggles. That's why I mentioned the "Separate but Equal" doctrine. Forty or so years ago, such an idea was deemed racist. Now it appears to me that's what they're shooting for.

Beldurin: Is < this > close to what you experienced?

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When 1337 hax0rs start impaling each other with swords and typing code with a hook on one hand, then they can modify the term "pirate."

This message has been edited by Observer on December 12, 2001 at 11:48 AM

wtf are you complaining about exactly, ic0n0? what do you want to see changed?

edit-damn you observer keep beating my posts hehe. as a matter of fact none of those posts came from quinn in any way, although most of my other posts did (which you didn't pick up on or didn't point out), ironically enough.

This message has been edited by CatKnight on December 12, 2001 at 12:02 PM

quote:

---

Originally posted by CatKnight:
hey anyone can contradict facts. I could prove black is white and white is black, and then get killed at the next zebra crossing. however, I have proof. you have zilch.

america used to be a melting pot, where all cultures came together to be called americans.

---

Time period, please. Cuz I don't believe there was any such time where that was true for anyone except Caucasians. And even among Caucasians there were clashes between the old immigrants and new immigrants...eg when the Irish came over, or the Italians.

two caveats to your earlier post:
a) it's not white people who are "supressing" blacks, it's al sharpton and the like who (quote from quinn) have nothing better to do then incite civil unrest.
b)white people won't be down to 50\% of the population for several decades. that's not even a minority, that just means 50\% white, 10\% black, 10\% asian, 10\% hispanic, etc.

There will always be minorities racially. That's why you don't perscribe social change that has even a vague mention of a racial minority. If you do, you are just falling for the plight of the working class marxist crap which by now we should all agree, < is a bad idea. >

This message has been edited by CatKnight on December 12, 2001 at 02:14 PM

------------------
A witty saying proves nothing.
Voltaire

This message has been edited by ic0n0 on December 12, 2001 at 02:19 PM

quote:

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What i am saying is that we are not "Americans" we are mixed europeans if we truley want to be "American" we have to obsorbe some of the culture of nonwhites in the mainsteam culutre becasue they are here also and have been here as long and in some cases longer.

---

hey you could have just said that without pulling a bunch of crap out of your ass to begin with. Instead of going into all of your gross misconceptions, I'll just answer your question.

because they don't want to. because they've been told that white people are bad. we're racist! we're even...evil! (duhn duhn duhhhhn!) they should do everything they can to retain their identity, otherwise the rest of the community will scorn them. you will never hear a white guy tell a black guy in college to stop acting white. you will hear other black guys telling black guys to stop acting white though.

part of assimilating into a culture means accepting individual equality.

here is my (over-simplified) dramatization:

black people: give us welfare, reparations, and affirmative actions! you wrong us!

white people: our generation didn't do anything! why don't you just get jobs and struggle through life fairly for a couple generations like our ancestors did. soon, you will be on equal footing.

black people: ... they're trying to bring us down! fuck whitey! fuck whitey!

white people:

quote:

---

Originally posted by CatKnight:
two caveats to your earlier post:
a) it's not white people who are "supressing" blacks, it's al sharpton and the like who (quote from quinn) have nothing better to do then incite civil unrest.

---

quote:

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you will never hear a white guy tell a black guy in college to stop acting white. you will hear other black guys telling black guys to stop acting white though.

---

Wow...this is a minefield of stereotypes and racism...if I offend anyone w/ my generalizations, sorry...

quote:

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But will you hear a white guy being told not to act black?

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Yes, and it ought to be said more often.

It's not really "acting black" though... being a fucking moron is being a fucking moron regardless of race.

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A witty saying proves nothing.
Voltaire

hows that for a cliche?

you are missing the entire point of an argument (except for the flaming bit, you got that down straight). you post opinion. i post fact disputing your opinion and/or post my opinion. next, you reinfore your opinion with fact or dispute my opinion. you don't whine like a sore looser and flame me.

so what is your opinion, and how am I wrong? stop bullshitting and get to the point.

"our culture is no longer a melting pot because certain political groups *ahem* seem to think that forcing diversity while at the same time reinforcing cultural and moral relativism is a good idea. Imagine that"

That is an opinion there isn't any fact in that, you believe that forcing diversity is bad that is an opinion not a fact, prove that it’s bad WITH FACT! You can’t do it because it’s all opinion and is full of subjective arguments.

“America used to be a melting pot, where all cultures came together to be called Americans. People didn't want to be considered separately. Everyone wanted to be treated as an equal, as Americans”

Now that is an opinion what about the fact that blacks were counted as 3/5ths of a person in our original constitution, and free blacks couldn't vote. Most states had rules barring people who couldn’t pay a poll tax from voting until the 60's that is hardly equality. How is it also equality for woman not to be able to vote until 1920 and Native Americans not being considered citizens of this nation until 1920? These are all FACTS that disprove your statement that the American people wanted everyone to be treated equal.

You continually bring up Marxism with your opinion that Marxism is bad and is crap, I am not a Marxist, but you don’t have any facts on that either, you could argue that the former U.S.S.R was evil or suppressive but it would be hard to prove those two things with any grain of fact. All of your arguments are subjective. I would agree with you that Marxism doesn’t work but that is an opinion and I would argue a true Marxist society has never been created, calling yourselves socialist doesn’t mean you are for example Nazi was a name members of the national socialist party of Germany who were not leftist but rather rightist.

“There will always be minorities racially. That's why you don't prescribe social change that has even a vague mention of a racial minority. If you do, you are just falling for the plight of the working class Marxist crap which by now we should all agree, is a bad idea(link here to picture of Hitler Stalin and Saddam banning guns).”

Well why should we all agree with you? Oh because these people all banned guns, because Hitler was a Marxist I forgot, Hitler loved Marx and his Jewish background. Oh yeah I forgot Saddam Hussein was a Marxist too. Damn those working class there all Marxists! (Note my sarcasim)

This message has been edited by ic0n0 on December 12, 2001 at 08:25 PM

------------------
A witty saying proves nothing.
Voltaire

"There are fewer biracial minorities because minorities are the racists"

that is heresy

no, they aren't going to burn me at the stake because I weigh more then a duck. hmm maybe you are thinking of hearsay. actually, it's not that either. so quit with the flaming.

and personal experiences to justify your opinions that isn't fact

ok you're almoost there. yes you've figured out that what I said was an opinion. now you figured out that it was an opinion based on personal experience (growing up going to public school that was > 60\% black, I'd say that's a good experience). Now it's your turn to counter my opinion based on whatever you want. Please anything besides "thats heresy not fact you suck and i like runon sentances and no breaks blah blah".

"our culture is no longer a melting pot because certain political groups *ahem* seem to think that forcing diversity while at the same time reinforcing cultural and moral relativism is a good idea. Imagine that"

That is an opinion there isn't any fact in that, you believe that forcing diversity is bad that is an opinion not a fact prove that it’s bad WITH FACT! You can’t do it because it’s all opinion and full of subjective arguments.

"thats not fact thats opinion blah blah blah!" Actually, if you had picked up on my sarcasm, you would see my argument. The war in kosovo was caused by the mediteranean goverment ethinicly cleansing out the arab population. this was because some arab terrorists were blowing up shit like in israel, and instead of patiently dealing with them, our good friend slobodon just said "FUUUUCK UUU I AM TEH WIN" and started taking all the arabs out. The rest of the world bashed slobon on the head with a big stick and said "Noo". Anyway the cause of the whole mess was due to balkanization, which is where the term comes from. We are starting to do the exact same things here. Furthermore, some groups (mainly universities and PC buisnesses) are using sensitivity training to make the middle and upper classes "more sensitive" to the oppressed labor class. This is a classic karl marx trick to kick the country WAY left. sort of a trick you see. the russians and chinese did the exact same thing (re-education camps). there's my proof. feel free to point out any "opinions" or "subjective arguments" as you see fit. Please, no more of this "I can't argue against you with coherent arguments so I'll just bash you for being an arrogant twit who forces his opinions on us wittle people" crap. I'm tired of it.

“America used to be a melting pot, where all cultures came together to be called Americans. People didn't want to be considered separately. Everyone wanted to be treated as an equal, as Americans”

Now that is an opinion what about the fact that blacks were counted as 3/5ths of a person in our original constitution, and that most states had rules barring people who couldn’t pay a poll tax from voting that is hardly equality. How is it also equality for woman not to be able to vote until 1920 and Native Americans not being considered citizens of this nation until 1920? These are all FACTS that disprove your statement that the American people wanted everyone to be treated equal.

hey look, it's an argument! yay! why don't you look the earlier posts where I already discuesed this and changed my opinion.

You continually bring up Marxism with your opinion that Marxism is bad and is crap, I am not a Marxist, but you don’t have any facts on that either, you could argue that the former U.S.S.R was evil or suppressive but it would be hard to prove those two things with any grain of fact.

the horrors that went on in the soviet union for 70 years or so are indeed fact. I know a decent amount about this. You would have an easier time trying to argue with me that the holocaust never really happened, and that claiming the nazis were evil is just a subjective argument because I don't have any facts.

It is subjective values, I would agree with you that Marxism doesn’t work but that is an opinion and I would argue a true Marxist society has never been created, calling yourselves socialist doesn’t mean you are for example Nazi was a name members of the national socialist party of Germany who were not leftist but rather rightist.

I dont know where you got the nazi's were rightist part, that is just bull. they were quite left. You say that it's unfair to critisize marx because a true marxist society hasn't been created. I say that BILLIONS of people have suffered, and many still do today, suffer terribly, becaues of the persuit of marxism. IMHO, that's a bad thing.

“There will always be minorities racially. That's why you don't prescribe social change that has even a vague mention of a racial minority. If you do, you are just falling for the plight of the working class Marxist crap which by now we should all agree, is a bad idea.”

Well why should we all agree with you? Oh because these people all banned guns, because Hitler was a Marxist I forgot, Hitler loved Marx and his Jewish background. Oh yeah I forgot Saddam Hussein was a Marxist too. Damn those working class there all Marxists!

is that your last resort before admitting that I might be right?

over all, you havn't really improved much. You have yet to explain to me what your opinion is, or even attempt to show why mine are wrong. You did an adequate job of trying to find holes in my opinions, but you still havn't told me yours!!! If I'm wrong, what is the alternative?

edit--heh okay just caught your post. you say minorities have never been accepted into our culture until recently. WHY do you think that? I think that they have been very welcomed and encouraged to do so since MLK.

This message has been edited by CatKnight on December 12, 2001 at 08:38 PM

The nazi's were fascists!
fas·cist (f sh st)
n.
1. often Fascist An advocate or adherent of fascism.
2. A reactionary or dictatorial person.
re·ac·tion·ar·y (r - k sh -n r )
adj.
Characterized by reaction, especially opposition to progress or liberalism; extremely conservative.

con·ser·va·tive (k n-sûr v -t v)
adj.
1. Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.
2. Traditional or restrained in style: a conservative dark suit.
3. Moderate; cautious: a conservative estimate.
4.
a. Of or relating to the political philosophy of conservatism.
b. Belonging to a conservative party, group, or movement.
Na·zi (nät s , n t -)
n. pl. Na·zis
1. A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, founded in Germany in 1919 and brought to power in 1933 under Adolf Hitler.
2. often nazi An adherent or advocate of policies characteristic of Nazism; a fascist.

Like Mussolini they were authoritarian right, The nazi's goal wasn't to create a state that was communally owned and operated by all it was to create an ethnically pure German state run by a military dictator where every one feel in line or would be punished, anyone who didn't fit the ideal German and did not share those values was to be dealt with, the goal of ethnic cleansing of a nation isn't political right or left because the Russians attempted to do the same. The Russians at the time were bolshevists.
Bol·she·vism also bol·she·vism (b l sh -v z m, b l -)
n.
1. The strategy developed by the Bolsheviks between 1903 and 1917 with a view to seizing state power and establishing a dictatorship of the proletariat.
2. Soviet Communism.

More to come.

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A witty saying proves nothing.
Voltaire

1. Class wars were seen as a threat to the idea of national unity.

2. Marxism aimed to destroy the state; the state according to Hitler was where power was derived

Hitler also delights in citing the proverbial expression "jdm. das Handwerk legen" (to put an end to someone's wheeling and dealing) in order to state belligerently how he will stop the activities of people whom he dislikes. The phrase is not necessarily threatening in normal language usage, but in the case of Hitler it expresses his obsession for power, his anti-Semitism, and his hate of Marxism at this early stage of his political development in the 1920s:

Fascism
Fascism was an authoritarian political movement that developed in Italy and several other European countries after 1919 as a reaction against the profound political and social changes brought about by World War I and the spread of socialism and Communism. Its name was derived from the fasces, an ancient Roman symbol of authority consisting of a bundle of rods and an ax. Italian fascism was founded in Milan on March 23, 1919, by Benito Mussolini, a former revolutionary socialist leader. His followers, mostly war veterans, were organized along paramilitary lines and wore black shirts as uniforms. The early Fascist program was a mixture of left- and right-wing ideas that emphasized intense Nationalism, productivism, anti-socialism, elitism, and the need for a strong leader. Mussolini's oratorical skills, the post-war economic crisis, a widespread lack of confidence in the traditional political system, and a growing fear of socialism, all helped the Fascist party to grow to 300,000 registered members by 1921. In that year it elected 35 members to parliament.

Those are qoutes, what i am saying here is basicly that both right wing and left wingers trying to gain strangth do ban guns in an attempt to gain said power.
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A witty saying proves nothing.
Voltaire

This message has been edited by ic0n0 on December 12, 2001 at 09:09 PM

First : Simply put, most of you that are posting here obviously haven't spent much time with a Real Minority. All the logic, debate, and reason in the world isn't going to make you understand racism, and if you don't understand it your arguments are going to suck. Which they do.

Having an acquaintance or two that is a member of the Other class doesn't count. Racism is so complex and so pervasive that you need to see it in action repeatedly, happening to people you love and respect, to begin to understand what it's like.

CK might say something snide about "emotional reasoning" here, so let me reply to that : racism is NOT logical. In all honesty, it makes very little sense at all. But the fact that something doesn't fit a logical model of the world doesn't mean it's not there - but it does hide it from the view of people who need to believe that the world is a fundamentally rational place.

In other words, there are a lot of people out there who believe that because racism doesn't make sense, it doesn't exist.

What really opened my eyes was one of my teachers in college - Mr. Bob Coleman. CK, you would love the guy - in many ways he was as conservative as you are, he always talked about the importance of self-discipline and hard work. "The Liberals" were one of his favorite targets.

He was also a black man. Since there are plenty of black conservatives that have gone on record saying they don't think racism exists, I'd like to give you his response :

"We English professors have conferences where we all get together to discuss the latest word in literature and criticism. We eat a lot and chat and deliver a lot of speeches. Now, what I want to know is this - why is it, when a white professor makes a speech, after he's done everyone talks to him about the ideas he presented - but when I make a speech, everyone oohs and aahhs over how articulate I am?"

And no, CK, it's not just Liberals. There are plenty of conservatives out there who say things like "you're a real credit to your race" and talk some nonsense about "your people pulling themselves up by their bootstraps."

So you want to know why minority cultures do not forget the fact that they're minorities? Because the majority won't let them.

So now they're standing up and giving the melting pot the middle finger it deserves. And all of us who understand these things are now saying that what we REALLY want is a stir-fry, where we can all be part of a tasty dish and still have the freedom to be ourselves and not get shit on for it. That is the basis of the "diversity" and "multiculturalism" you love to trash so much.

And by the by, there ain't nothin' wrong with a white boy talkin' black, jes' so long as youse is celebratin' it instead of tryin' to make fun. I speak like that all the time to the only black lady in my office, and strangely enough I'm the only white boy she doesn't think is at least a little racist. "I like you," she says, "'cause you speak my language."

This message has been edited by damien_s_lucifer on December 12, 2001 at 09:17 PM

This message has been edited by ic0n0 on December 12, 2001 at 09:43 PM

hey damien, you really don't understand me that well, do you. I never denied that racism existed. The point I was trying to make was that the problem doesn't lie where you think it does. Quinn's first law: Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent. I, personally, have yet to see an exception to this rule, especially on campus. Stuff like the "Acts on intolerance will not be tolerated", the actual wording to a new campus policy against hate (AD29 I think), reeks of hypocracy.

laws created by the PC krew, whom banned fox news in the dorms too.

quote:

---

Originally posted by CatKnight:
a) there are fewer biracial minorities because minorities are the racists, these days.

---

Funny...in a hundred years or so, "Azn Pride" and "Black is beautiful" might be replaced with "White Might" or something suitably catchy...

quote:

---

b) our culture is no longer a melting pot because...

<insert some twist bashing non-Republicans>

---

america used to be a melting pot, where all cultures came together to be called americans. people didn't want to be considered seperately. everyone wanted to be treated as an equal, as americans. now everyone wants special treatment. next thing you know, blacks will have an entire dorm to themselves. self-segregation. jesse jackson will call it progress. i call it poop.

But if that sort of thinking is pervasive in your area, I don't blame you for being a staunch conservative.

Doesn't mean I think you're right tho.

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A witty saying proves nothing.
Voltaire

This message has been edited by ic0n0 on December 13, 2001 at 03:57 AM

quote:

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its one of marx's bag'o'tricks. it's on page of the communist manifesto, if you have that handy.

---

i blame rap music for the lack of reduction of racism in culture. going about shouting yeah,yeah ,yeah ngger i'm gonna cap yo bitch. isnt exactly productive plus rap and r'n'b suck. just go watch american history x or something.

i think we should worry more about the gays anyway they're the ones that are trying to take over the world.

i do feel that america has a much higher level of racism than many other democratiuc countries. (we're not racist to the french we justafiably hate them )

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i'm afriad expulsion is the ONLY answer, it's the opinion of the entire staff that DKB is criminally insane!

quote:

---

Originally posted by ic0n0:
Fox news is pretty conservative but that is no reason to ban it

---

I like fox news... if anyone here actually watches The O'Reilly Factor and Hannity and Colmes you might be impressed... O'Reilly is a smart guy and has a talent for exposing the crap behind liberals AND conservatives. Maybe the Fox News channel has gained a sort of tabloid-ish reputation is because of this... but he also makes politicians nervous, which isn't such a bad thing. Hannity and Colmes is interesting too, because both of these guys are on opposite sides of the spectrum of political views, and they both know what they're talking about.

This American thing reminds me of an essay I wrote back in like 9th grade... As far as the racism goes, CK is quite right on the fact that the actual minorities have played a large part in perpetuating prejudice. This can partially be attributed to De Facto segregation - that means basically people segregate themselves. It's especially obvious at my school, which is almost 50\% black 10\% white and 40\% anyone else, when I walk into the lunch room the blacks are sitting at certain tables, the whites elsewhere. It's this barrier that often goes unacknowledged but is very much existent; racial groups tend to stay together and that's just the way it is, and that communal relationship within a group might invoke misunderstanding of other races and hostility.
Another thing. It seems that it's simply taboo for a white person to be racist these days, while a minority might be allowed to bend the rules. Why is that? It's not an uncommon thing in my school to witness racism in spite of the fact that I attend one of the most diverse schools in the state (in the country?). I've been called cracker, white-boy, all sorts of things. Teachers know this but there is little done to address it. Now, if I so much as uttered the word "nigger" within earshot of one of my African-American classmates, I would not only receive a prompt and severe beating, but I would probably be suspended from school for a week, the administration would make a big to-do out of the incident, and it's good-bye to my hopes for college. As enigmatic as this contrast is, it's so real that it can't be ignored. Things that have happened from since 2 centuries ago are still causing the tension to remain.

This message has been edited by chmod on December 13, 2001 at 04:46 AM

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A witty saying proves nothing.
Voltaire

but my dad wil often refer to the off license as the "pa**i shop"(edited cos the last thing cr0 needs is some activist trying to get him arrested or something) not out of racism but simply because he's been brought up to call it that naturally.

political correctness is probably the worst mistake of current culture simply because it points out peoples differences by trying to cover up for any possible offense. if people get offended by silly phrases that aren't actually intened to be offensive then they have no right to complain about being offended as they are just stupid and narrow minded.

i mean who seriously actually use the term police person as opposed to police man.

when people point stuff like that i just tell them to STFU kthx!

edit: and another thing whats the deal with this melting pot idea anywayz i dont see why people should all conform to some state oif equallness as thats not possible but then its stupid to expect people to not have to change in anyway . diffent countries have different cultures people should expect to conform to some form of this culture as trying to be exactly the way you were from the country culture you derived from is just seperating you from the majority anywayz. theres no such thing as a free lunch people!
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i'm afriad expulsion is the ONLY answer, it's the opinion of the entire staff that DKB is criminally insane!

This message has been edited by Dark Knight Bob on December 13, 2001 at 05:51 AM

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quote:

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And wow! Hey! What's this thing suddenly coming towards me very fast? Very very fast. So big and flat and round, it needs a big wide sounding name like . . . ow . . . ound . . . round . . . ground! That's it! That's a good name - ground!
I wonder if it will be friends with me?

And the rest, after a sudden wet thud, was silence.

---

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When 1337 hax0rs start impaling each other with swords and typing code with a hook on one hand, then they can modify the term "pirate."

This message has been edited by ic0n0 on December 13, 2001 at 10:58 AM

There are plenty of cars up there that are plastered with "LOVE THE EARTH" and "Honor Diversity" stickers, but the people that have them sure as hell don't understand what they mean. After all, it's hard to really honor something that you have never really experienced.

The SF metropolitan area is a mixture of more cultures than anyone can count. Around here, "Honor Diversity" means "Damn, I like having 30 different styles of food per square mile, the mall has any kind of music anyone would ever want, I can swear in eight different languages, and people as a whole are pretty damn happy."

So you can see why I get a little upset when people start bashing on "multiculturalism" and "diversity." But at the same time, I'm kind of ignorant of how much bullshit goes on in the name of those ideas. Please enlighten me further...

This message has been edited by damien_s_lucifer on December 13, 2001 at 05:30 PM

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When 1337 hax0rs start impaling each other with swords and typing code with a hook on one hand, then they can modify the term "pirate."

This message has been edited by Observer on December 13, 2001 at 06:16 PM

------------------
A witty saying proves nothing.
Voltaire

Also, the Religious Right keeps using us as a battleground. We're getting really fucking sick of groups like the Traditional Values Coalition and Focus on the Family coming in and waging war against bills going thru our legislature - like the bill that makes homosexuality part of the state's sex education curricula that Quinn wrote about.

Here's some news for him - you know those damn Democrats that control our government? We elected them, because we agree with their ideas and opinions. Homosexuality is an accepted part of culture, so it makes sense that we teach our kids about it while we're teaching them about sex.

The California Republicans would have a decent chance of getting elected here if it wasn't for the religious right.

This message has been edited by damien_s_lucifer on December 13, 2001 at 10:06 PM

i don't think it's the school's job to teach kids about sex anyway

my point: we're all African.

tahts where the first human remains were found, and thats gotta be where the Homo sapien race must have started.

heh... i know, its kind of off, but hell, i had to post it.

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Screw this crap, I've had it. I ain't no Mr. Cool.
< =rwa= >