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Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

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Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

You don't even live here, so why do you care?

(cr0 doesn't count =P)

The only regulations for gun control are there is to stop an armed uprising by the people.

I live with nobody else.

I keep expensive things in my apartment, and it's not very visible to passerbys.

I am a very good shot.

I am very safe.

I've never committed a crime. I never will use a gun in a crime.

I enjoy shooting weekly.

Why should I not be allowed to have a gun?

Trust me, this country has guns too, right here in Toronto, and I can easily get my hands on some illegally imported guns, but the point here is that for America, it comes and goes a whole lot easier than the other countries.

quote:

---

Originally posted by askheaves:
Shut the fuck up.

You don't even live here, so why do you care?

---

------------------
Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

quote:

---

Originally dribbled by Sithiee:
cause brits and canucks are pussy bitches who wish that they could have guns, but live in nations that are too pussy do let them have guns, so they pretend they like it, and then look down on us for having the rights they wish they had.

---

Colombine

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Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

quote:

---

Originally posted by askheaves:
I own a gun.

I live with nobody else.

I keep expensive things in my apartment, and it's not very visible to passerbys.

I am a very good shot.

I am very safe.

I've never committed a crime. I never will use a gun in a crime.

I enjoy shooting weekly.

Why should I not be allowed to have a gun?

---

------------------
Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

This message has been edited by Dysorderia on April 28, 2001 at 06:03 PM

"A gun's just a fuckin' tool. A way to get a tiny object frome here to there."
-ANON-

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vulu:
"Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people."
-C. Rock

"A gun's just a fuckin' tool. A way to get a tiny object frome here to there."
-ANON-

---

You can't exactly kill someone by throwing bullets at them.

guns are dangerous when in the wrong hands.

------------------
Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

If you go on to diss the NRA, remember that they probably have the toughest stance on people who use a gun in a crime.

All I want is guns in my hands, and anybody else who can handle the responsibility.

Edit: UBB... again

This message has been edited by askheaves on April 28, 2001 at 06:27 PM

Guns are fine. I don't have one, and never plan to, but there is no problem with them. If you don't like guns, don't fucking get one. Pussy ass fucker.

------------------
Net Syndrome - < http://www.netsyndrome.net/ >
Spydir Web - < http://www.netsyndrome.net/spydirweb/ >

Have you ever held a gun? Fired one? Ever held a bullet (after firing) and thrown it at your other hand? Ever hit by a ricochet in the mouth? Until any of this happens to you, you won't appreciate what a gun is and what it does. I've never been shot, but I know for a fact that I don't want to be. Hell, it even hurts to get hit by the ejected brass.

Now, this doesn't help my case any, but it's important to realize that a gun isn't the only way to hurt people. In addition, a gun isn't always used to hurt people. Many guns are fired thousands of times, without one bullet entering a person. Mine is an example. A majority of the guns in existance are never used upon another man... some never even fired.

I'm more scared of a person without a gun and a hostile intent, than I am of a benevolent person with a gun.

If you want to say that there are too many guns somewhere, then start talking about Israel. A lot of folks with hostile intent, combined with rocks, guns, bombs, and maltov cocktails. Start there.

2002: Stabbings increase 500\%.

2003: People protest knife proliferation.

you all went beserk and started defending your country again.

quote:

---

Originally posted by solid:
youre all missing the point.. ?!?! wtf.. the man asked why there are so many guns in america.

you all went beserk and started defending your country again.

---

At least someone in here saw what i was really asking.

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Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vigilante:
Every citizen should be provided one for a week

---

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Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

This message has been edited by Dysorderia on April 28, 2001 at 09:02 PM

silver

quote:

---

Originally posted by SiLVeR54:
u know what? lets just say America bans guns. NO GUNS AT ALL! the bad side of America (the ppl who smuggle stuff), will find a loophole in the law, and they will find a way to get guns! you can't stop anything.. the government can't do shit about the American people!

silver

---

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Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

If that's not on topic, please re-iterate for us what the topic IS

------------------
You are what you drive
---
Acura NSX: I am impotent.

"there needs to be less video game violence, because thats why those kids at columbine shot people"

wrong, look at all the people who played doom and didnt go kill people. case closed.

"if they didnt have the guns, they couldnt have killed all those people"

they had explosives, explosives kill also...and as we all learned from watching fight club, many household items can be used to create explosives. yet again, the guns are not to blame (maybe the people who gave them the guns, but they werent being responsible with the guns, and they gave up their right to have em in the first place)

do you want to know the real cause of columbine? people who pick on others. these kids were the ones who got picked on by all the jocks at school. but since they were jocks, and the school loved its athletics program (like every other fucking high school in the US) no one did anything to the athletes. so the kids got picked on all the time. and they eventually had enough. my guess is that they probably were screwed up in other ways as well. but our society has taken nothing positive from this. its come away with the idea that profiling is good (note how the media said they were part of a trench coat mafia, and then lots of cases of kids who wore trenchcoats came in with their being picked on. the students at columbine werent wearing trench coats.) its come away with the idea that gun control will stop kids from fighting back against bullies that the school wont stop. its gotten the idea that healthy outlets of violence such as video games where no real people get hurt are training kids to kill.

so youre one word, you say columbine, i say is bullshit. wanna try again?

quote:

---

Originally posted by aventari:
you posted about too many guns in America, implying that we need to ban em. So SiLVeR posted about it.

If that's not on topic, please re-iterate for us what the topic IS

---

I did not imply anything, aventari

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Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

code:

---

             (per million folks)  pct. of households
                homicide              with guns
              (suicide+murder)      
              ----------------  ------------------
Australia       135.3           19.6
Belgium         250.0           16.6
Canada          165.4           29.1
England/Wales    92.8            4.7
Finland         283.1           23.2
France          235.5           22.6
Holland         129.0            1.9
N. Ireland      129.3            8.4
Norway          154.8           32.0
Scotland        121.4            4.7
Spain            78.2           13.1
Switzerland     256.2           27.2
USA             199.9           48.0
West Germany    215.8            8.9

---

Yippie... Apparantly, even though America has about 1 gun per 2 households, we're not at the top of the list for crime
In addition, for this timeframe, Japan was even worse than most the rest. So, should we just reduce the number of guns to 8.9\% ? That should solve the crime problems, right? OK... let's just do that.

(Killias, Martin, International correlations between gun ownership and rates of homicide and suicide, Can Med Assoc J, 1993, 148, 1721-1725)

Edit: UBB and tables is tough, even for a gansta.

This message has been edited by askheaves on April 28, 2001 at 09:43 PM

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dysorderia:
even the ones in physiatric hospitals?

---

ESPECIALLY them.

------------------
When my flying days are over, and my death has come to pass
I hope they bury me upside down, so the whole damn world can kiss my ass

quote:

---

Originally posted by askheaves:
I'm totally confused about the topic at hand. Are you in objection to the number of guns simply for their mass? Or, for their taking up too much space? For weighing down the island this country sits on? Or is it because of crime and such?

---

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Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

quote:

---

Originally posted by j0eSmith:
ESPECIALLY them.

---

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Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

We're probably gonna get a rebel/perfectionist/asshole/smartass/intellect-wannabe to post a quote from silver saying how america has good customs, and yet that wasnt related, but dysorderia said it was a good point anyways, but frankly I don't give a shit.

The reason I want to bust ya'll down is because you got defensive . I do it too, but it still is one of the worst things to do during a session of expressing opinions...
It's really hard to find that right balance you're looking for.

Anyhow, this was off-topic enough, so:

I would say (implying that I BELIEVE) the reason why there's so many guns in America is because of a few things-

1. There's all these gun manufacturing places.. or where are those.. you never really hear of that topic do you.. I know I don't, it makes me a little suspicous.

2. In the land of "freedom", which I also believe to be some sort of sick joke which we won't be discussing here, you'd assume the rights to mass produce arms and also own them too.

3. Because simply, Americans just feel tougher that way. I can't find any sort of divine artistic or some other sort of appreciation for a tool that is meant to kill other than the rush I get from knowing that I have the power to wipe out a human's (or any other life form's) life when I'm holding one.

4. Also because America is somewhat of a show-off. Or they sure as hell know how to make it seem like that way. C'mon- they really got the best of all the material things, and they're proud of it. Right now a number of people that are reading this are probably thinking "Damn straight!", but sometimes I get disgusted just watching those people say that- because the way America got to where they are.. it just has no honour in it. Most countries in fact, don't. I hate to see false pride, and American pride (which the majority of it, as I see, is false) can be for some the most easiest to distinguish and for some the most easiest to dismiss.

I say that because of the experience I had in my life just can't compare with the experience that a person who was born in the USA and raised there would recieve, yet at the same time I have no real idea what it's like to be a born-and-raised American.

I also realize this last bit was off-topic, but it was just there to clear some things up, I believe.

and another thing, dysorderia, if youre a brit, but you live in the usa, DONT COMPLAIN, you obviously like it better here than there, so dont bitch about our freedoms.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dysorderia:
[QUOTE]I am in objection to the ease that one can obtain a gun in america.

---

Why is that such a big deal. I'm going to play dumb for a minute. Why do you care how hard it is to get a gun?

That's all I'm asking. What is your major gripe? There are a lot of guns. In some places, it's easy to get a hold of one.

Remember, that, it's not a homogeneous thing. It's nearly impossible to get a legal gun in New York. It's easy to get one in Arizona if you're a law abiding citizan. I am one, and as such, I got one within an hour. The major holdup was deciding which one I wanted.

quote:

---

Originally posted by SiLVeR54:
and how do ppl bring them in? you americans have good customs, so..... where? how?

---

Good point Silver

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Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

quote:

---

youre all missing the point.. ?!?! wtf.. the man asked why there are so many guns in america.

you all went beserk and started defending your country again.

---

the question is a criticism in itself.

one does not ask that question without implying negativity; the "so many" insinuates superfluous excess. what type of reaction did you expect?

------------------
<º(((><

You people need to learn to deal with life! Yeah, there's a lot of shit out there that "shouldn't be", but it's there, SO FUCKING DEAL WITH IT! Have your opinions if you want, and defend them when they are attacked, but don't sit there telling everyone else you're right and everyone else is wrong, because it just makes you look like the prick you are... Hell, you don't even have to believe what I just said, because that's my OPINION and I could give a shit less if you people agree or not.

------------------
Net Syndrome - < http://www.netsyndrome.net/ >
Spydir Web - < http://www.netsyndrome.net/spydirweb/ >

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dysorderia:
Vulu, bullets aren't much use on their own.

You can't exactly kill someone by throwing bullets at them.

---

*cough*iwasjoking*cough*

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vulu:
*cough*iwasjoking*cough*

---

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Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

I'll mention a couple more reasons why the 'states has so many guns:

1- They have an aggerssive-aggressive government system. (No, I'm sorry, that's not a good thing, as much as we know you love to feel badass)

2- They are a lot like the bully in the classroom. They also have an insatiable thirst for power.

Firstly, we're talking only about domestic affairs here. The government isn't putting guns in people's hands. The government isn't making us bullies. Any of that is foreign affairs issue only.

And, I still ask the question: What is your problem with the number of guns here? It can't simply be access. And, it's not like it's all that easy to get a gun in California, New York, and most other places. Besides, a gun is an inert object until somebody loads it, points it, and pulls the trigger.

quote:

---

Originally posted by solid:
1- They have an aggerssive-aggressive government system. (No, I'm sorry, that's not a good thing, as much as we know you love to feel badass)

---

As opposed to passive-passive or agressive-passive? You need to explain yourself and clarify exactly what you mean by this. Use examples or no one will take you seriously.

quote:

---

2- They are a lot like the bully in the classroom. They also have an insatiable thirst for power.

---

Again, examples? And while your at it, tell me you honestly believe that there are countries that don't want power.

Truth is, we all have an insatibale thirst for power. Such a desire is inherent in human social progression. Most of us just don't have the intelligence, tenacity, or means to gain it.

Do you despise the USA for being amongst the few that can?

When was the last time we collectively chose a race and decided that we've had enough of them? What's the last nation we unjustly invaded and settled in? When was the last time we decided to use nuclear weapons to keep people inline with our agenda? What is our agenda?

Overall, it could be a hell of a lot worse. It has to be nice having a nation around that's willing to spend resources and manpower on keeping peace in hotspots on earth. Willing to spy on terrorist groups and give people at least a sporting chance against them. I'd rather it be us than, say, Iraq.

Second, the things I mentioned relates. I talke out the extra "-aggressive" I put there, that was useless.

Once AGAIN (god dammit how many times) You all got defensive. I think I'll wait to see what brilliant plan someone has to counter what I just mentioned here (something along the lines of "well you make it seem that way some words i cant understand blah blah").

And america is rather a bully, if you'd like an example- heres one: canuck-land owners give in 500 million for that missle defence system thing. Just ANOTHER weapon. There you have it.

And, yes, we are talking about domestic affairs. We're talking about a problem that doesn't extend beyond our borders, so how America relates to the rest of the world is irrelavent.

quote:

---

And america is rather a bully, if you'd like an example- heres one: canuck-land owners give in 500 million for that missle defence system thing. Just ANOTHER weapon. There you have it.

---

That was about as convincing as master saleman Don Lapre's "Self-Made Millionare" infomercial.

I can just picture it now:

Uncle Sam: Hey, stupidface! What did I tell you about looking at me!

Johnny Maple Leaf: Leave me alone, Sammy!

Uncle Sam shoves Johnny into boy's bathroom

Uncle Sam: Now give me your lunch money or else!

Johnny Maple Leaf: But it's all I have! I wanted to get some chocolate milk!

Uncle Sam give Johnny a "Murphy"

Uncle Sam: You're paying for my missle defense system whether you like it or not, stupidhead!

Johnny Maple Leaf: Leave me alone, Sam! Why I'll...I'll tell on you!

Uncle Sam dips Johnny's head in toilet for a "swirlee"

Uncle Sam: Ha ha!

(Kids gather round to scoff, while Uncle Sam takes lunch money)

Johnny Maple Leaf: Well...at least I'll somehow benefit from this...right?

Uncle Sam: Wrong again, CANADIAN!

Sam throws Johnny in trash can

quote:

---

Originally posted by whiskey@throttle:

---

ROFL
I always loved watching those informercials they always cracked me up.

BTW that's rather low to flame me like that.. not that it goes to show anything new of course.

WHY DOES AMERICA HAVE SO MANY GUNS:

------------------
When my flying days are over, and my death has come to pass
I hope they bury me upside down, so the whole damn world can kiss my ass

quote:

---

Originally posted by solid:
ok lets restart this whole thing:

WHY DOES AMERICA HAVE SO MANY GUNS:

---

ok lets restart this whole thing:

DOES AMERICA HAVE TOO MANY GUNS?

quote:

---

DOES AMERICA HAVE TOO MANY GUNS?

---

-Ash

Thank you and good night

quote:

---

Originally posted by TallAssAzn:
there's a hick who doesn't know how to use a gun safely.

---

hey, fuck you. us "hick's" probably know more about guns than most people. we(most of us) grew up around them and know how to use them. so fuck you and the horse that rode you in.

------------------
my butt and uh your uh butt.

This message has been edited by kai on April 29, 2001 at 12:55 PM

quote:

---

Originally posted by askheaves:
ok lets restart this whole thing:

DOES AMERICA HAVE TOO MANY GUNS?

---

There arent too many guns, but there are getting to be too many school shootings. Lazy parents and media overkill are going to ruin it for everyone. In the end the USA will probably do something else to cut down on regular citizens having guns. Then the only ones who will have guns will be criminals. Thank you lazy parents and fucked up govt...

------------------
All that I know there was no God for me
Force that shatters all, absence of mortality

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sithiee:
cause brits and canucks are pussy bitches who wish that they could have guns, but live in nations that are too pussy do let them have guns, so they pretend they like it, and then look down on us for having the rights they wish they had.

---

erm actually we were allowed to own shotguns and such eg. farmers and use them in rifle clubs and such until the crazy people got hold of them and started going into scholls and killing kids. The guy was a cub/boy scout leader which also explains a lot

------------------
what do you mean vodka isnt an officially recognised AMD coolant

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dysorderia:
Vulu, bullets aren't much use on their own.

---

aint you ever seen the film "hope and glory" all you need is a bullet, nail, vice and a hammer

oh yeah and anyone whos read anarchists cookbook will know a couple of ways of killing people with just bullets >:]
------------------
what do you mean vodka isnt an officially recognised AMD coolant

This message has been edited by Dark Knight Bob on April 30, 2001 at 06:46 AM

quote:

---

Originally posted by SiLVeR54:
u know what? lets just say America bans guns. NO GUNS AT ALL! the bad side of America (the ppl who smuggle stuff), will find a loophole in the law, and they will find a way to get guns! you can't stop anything.. the government can't do shit about the American people!

silver

---

[joke]solution take the american people out of the equation WOOHAAAHAAAA hands up all thiose who want to nuke america! [/joke]

------------------
what do you mean vodka isnt an officially recognised AMD coolant

------------------
what do you mean vodka isnt an officially recognised AMD coolant

However, the right to bear arms was inserted because they wanted to insure that there never would be a day in which the American people were powerless against the government... the ultimate veto. It all goes back to Hobbes and Locke. They wanted a balance between the two theories, in which the goverment took care of the people, but never compromised their freedom.

school shootings aren't caused by guns, they're caused by the buildup of frustration and rage as bullied kids consistently find that there's no help for them.

and as for the original question of 'why are there so many guns in america?' well, that's because supply and demand on a FREE marketplace are set by the invisible hand. as long as there are people willing to buy guns, gun makers will continue to make them.

are there enough guns in america? hardly. if there were enough guns in america, nobody'd be at gun shops and gun shows buying more of them.

as for the relationship of guns to crime, by BATF numbers, there are 80,000,000 legal gun owners in the united states. the CDC lists annual accidental shooting deaths at 1500. the number of accidental deaths per gun owner? 0.0000188. not even doctors have that low of an accidental kill rate.

in case you're wondering, the CDC indicates that there are 700,000 licensed physicians in america. every year, there are 120,000 deaths caused by a physician's mistake. accidental deaths per physician? 0.171.

the chances of dying from a mistake made by a doctor are 9,000 times higher than the chances of dying from an accidental shooting.

of course, nobody's asking 'why are there so many doctors in america?'

------------------
kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost

------------------
what do you mean vodka isnt an officially recognised AMD coolant

but again, america has too many guns.
simply put if you want to have the power to fight against the government what the hell is that? what the hell do you think the government will do? put martial law in the streets and the roit police will simply shoot you.

you really think that the gun thats in your hand will help you fight against a whole SYSTEM? especially when its the most powerful in the world?

but america still mass produces so many guns.
the fact that theres not that much people OWNING guns doesnt really affect that there ARE so many guns in the country.

------------------
what do you mean vodka isnt an officially recognised AMD coolant

and you all keep talking about too many guns. the fact remains you dont say how many is too many, or how many we have. you cant just make a blanket statement that we have too many guns. maybe you just dont have enough.

bottom line, stop bitching about our freedoms. youre jealous cause we're better than you.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sithiee:
solid, again, when it comes to our ways, youre just showing how little you know. the guns are not only there to allow us to revolt if necessary (now we have many other ways to resort to before full out revolt) but theyre there to protect us. what if canada tried to invade? well, youd be fux0red, because a lot of us have guns to fight you off with. if the US invaded canada, youd all be fucked, because you dont have ready defense.

and you all keep talking about too many guns. the fact remains you dont say how many is too many, or how many we have. you cant just make a blanket statement that we have too many guns. maybe you just dont have enough.

bottom line, stop bitching about our freedoms. youre jealous cause we're better than you.

---

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD!! WE'RE NOT JEALOUS!

I don't give a SHIT about how much america is better than the rest (and only in some aspects, mind you!)

And tell me how realistic it is to assume that *some* day the canadians will start attacking? Not very!

There ARE too many guns in america! If all the other countries don't produce that much, and there's like 200 other countries out there, ID FREAKIN ASSUME YOU HAVE TOO MANY GUNS!

yeesh..

quote:

---

Originally posted by solid:
There ARE too many guns in america!

---

If you're gonna keep on repeating this sentence, will you please at least attempt to further the conversation and tell us WHERE TO DRAW THE FREAKIN' LINE?? You've ignored this quesiton time and time again!

How many guns are too many? By what amount would America have to cut its gun count to make it acceptable to you?

quote:

---

Originally posted by solid:
but america still mass produces so many guns

---

Please, please, please start to contribute to the furtherance of this discussion. Thank you.

------------------
--Jynx

I used to be a kleptomaniac, but then I took something for it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jynx:
If you're gonna keep on repeating this sentence, will you please at least attempt to further the conversation and tell us WHERE TO DRAW THE FREAKIN' LINE?? You've ignored this quesiton time and time again!

How many guns are too many? By what amount would America have to cut its gun count to make it acceptable to you?
--------
So what? What does this have to do with ANYTHING? America also has huge metalworking factories, but no one is complaining about how there are too many lockwashers in America.
--------
Please, please, please start to contribute to the furtherance of this discussion. Thank you.
--------

---

First off, I'm not some sort of specialist for you to go ahead and tell you where to draw the line. If you think I'm intentionally ignoring that question, you're wrong - and I just told you why. With a little common sense you should be able to tell when a country has too much guns.

Second, that does have to do with SOMETHING. We're not talking about lockwashers. America has who knows how many toilet seats for all I care, when you address something like a weapon - which it's original intent was to kill, it's a little different than a lockwasher.

And third, what the hell do you want me to say? Why don't you tell me?

every citizen over 18 is *required by law* to own a gun. their crime rate is low, yet they're all armed. switzerland.

as for the people being able to stand up to the government, with force, it is possible. it's been done more than once. and even today, it can be done again. the military and police won't necessarily support a government that attacks its own people. desertion rates would be high, and even a police state would be hard pressed to fight an army of a hundred million.

anyway, none of this really matters. the nature of true freedom is that you don't have to provide a reason to the government to exercise your human rights, the government has to provide a reason to you to deny you those rights. since the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are inalienable human rights, and owning a weapon helps to further a person's right to his own life (it's a tool of self defense), then ownership of a weapon is also an inalienable right. one which no american need give the government any 'reason' for their desire to exercise. that makes all arguments about 'why is it necessary to own a gun?' or 'why do you want one?' moot. protection of a person's life, by any means, is a fundamental and undeniable right. adequate protection requires preparedness before the fact. and that's all anybody need know.

------------------
kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost

------------------
what do you mean vodka isnt an officially recognised AMD coolant

quote:

---

Originally posted by solid:
First off, I'm not some sort of specialist for you to go ahead and tell you where to draw the line.

---

If you're not some specialist, then
HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THERE ARE TOO MANY GUNS IN AMERICA????

Look. I am not asking for a professional opinion. I am simply wondering how many guns America would need to cut down by in order for you not to make the statement "There are too many guns in America". Would they need to be cut by a third? A half?

Aaargh. Why am I even bothering with you? Here is the condensed conversation so far:

solid: America has too many guns.

anyone else: Why do you say that?

solid: America has too many guns, and everyone in the country is a big bully.

anyone else: Huh? Look, here are some numbers. The quantity of guns in a country has little or no bearing on the crime rate. Now, America has some guns. So what?

solid: America has too many guns, and is a total loser.

anyone else: Okay, so how many guns is too many, in your opinion?

solid: America has too many guns!

anyone else: Aaargh! Answer the question!

solid: I just did! America has too many guns!

Look, why don't you just answer the question? Unless, of course, you have already realized how lame a stance you have taken--then, just feel free to keep repeating yourself, and we'll be happy to ignore you.

--J

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jynx:

Look. I am not asking for a professional opinion. I am simply wondering how many guns America would need to cut down by in order for you not to make the statement "There are too many guns in America". Would they need to be cut by a third? A half?

Aaargh. Why am I even bothering with you? Here is the condensed conversation so far:

solid: America has too many guns.

anyone else: Why do you say that?

solid: America has too many guns, and everyone in the country is a big bully.

anyone else: Huh? Look, here are some numbers. The quantity of guns in a country has little or no bearing on the crime rate. Now, America has some guns. So what?

solid: America has too many guns, and is a total loser.

anyone else: Okay, so how many guns is too many, in your opinion?

solid: America has too many guns!

anyone else: Aaargh! Answer the question!

solid: I just did! America has too many guns!

Look, why don't you just answer the question? Unless, of course, you have already realized how lame a stance you have taken--then, just feel free to keep repeating yourself, and we'll be happy to ignore you.

--J

---

You are an asshole.

You twist peoples words around until they are no longer recognizable.

you quote in all the wrong places.

*edit* fixed bold tags

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Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

This message has been edited by Dysorderia on May 01, 2001 at 02:00 PM

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dysorderia:

You know Jynx, you could be a reporter IF you grow up.
You have all the right qualities for the job:

You are an asshole.

You twist peoples words around until they are no longer recognizable.

you quote in all the wrong places.

*edit* fixed bold tags

---

...

SHUT THE FUCK UP!

...

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Net Syndrome - < http://www.netsyndrome.net/ >
Spydir Web - < http://www.netsyndrome.net/spydirweb/ >

First off, you'd manipulate my words. You'd say something like "no, it's not that, it's <statistic>", and now that I've mentioned this - so far you're thinking "well then shut the fuck up!" and NOW some of you are thinking "DAMN STRAIGHT SHUT THE FUCK UP! YOURE JUST DISPROVING YOURSELF!" Because in the first place, I told you that I'm not some sort of think-tank with unlimited answers.

Second, never did I really try (or at least mean, your interpertation belongs to you, so..) to tell you that america is a total loser. I point out why I think america gives a bad appeal to me. Having the worlds best military is really great! An accomplishment, indeed. On the other hand, it also goes to show that your government is rather aggressive. It's not like these two point cancel each other out or win over another, they're just there.

Btw I liked that thing about the zippos and the lighting of the farts. Made me laugh.

Red alert 2 was a great simulator, I woulnd't imagine the persident of the states would be such a WUSS though. The real president, george bush would grab any opportunity to chew on the balls of any country trying to invade it like *snap*.

And no, I still won't give an exact answer, because I told you why already, and that I just really don't know.

I'll say this... I'm getting the impression that my real problem with america may just as well be ... capitalism.

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what do you mean vodka isnt an officially recognised AMD coolant

quote:

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Originally dribbled by Spyduh:
...

SHUT THE FUCK UP!

...

---

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Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

This message has been edited by Dysorderia on May 01, 2001 at 04:28 PM

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When my flying days are over, and my death has come to pass
I hope they bury me upside down, so the whole damn world can kiss my ass

This message has been edited by j0eSmith on May 01, 2001 at 07:29 PM

quote:

---

Originally posted by solid:
First off, you'd manipulate my words. You'd say something like "no, it's not that, it's <statistic>", and now that I've mentioned this - so far you're thinking "well then shut the fuck up!" and NOW some of you are thinking "DAMN STRAIGHT SHUT THE FUCK UP! YOURE JUST DISPROVING YOURSELF!" Because in the first place, I told you that I'm not some sort of think-tank with unlimited answers.

Second, never did I really try (or at least mean, your interpertation belongs to you, so..) to tell you that america is a total loser. I point out why I think america gives a bad appeal to me. Having the worlds best military is really great! An accomplishment, indeed. On the other hand, it also goes to show that your government is rather aggressive. It's not like these two point cancel each other out or win over another, they're just there.

Btw I liked that thing about the zippos and the lighting of the farts. Made me laugh.

Red alert 2 was a great simulator, I woulnd't imagine the persident of the states would be such a WUSS though. The real president, george bush would grab any opportunity to chew on the balls of any country trying to invade it like *snap*.

And no, I still won't give an exact answer, because I told you why already, and that I just really don't know.

I'll say this... I'm getting the impression that my real problem with america may just as well be ... capitalism.

---

I'll respond componentially.

No one would manipulate your words. What might happen is you would be vague again and people would attempt to interpret what you're not finishing saying and then that would be wrong in your book and you would claim that that wasn't what you meant.

Having an aggressive government is not a con. America has a lot more influence
on the world than most other countries because we're a lot more proactive. We try to do shit. Face the facts: what matters is military. A country which cannot defend itself is consumed by another country which can, and it's culture/beliefs are phased out and replaced with the stronger country's. If you want your ideas to survive, you have a strong military.

Thanks, I thought of it myself. :-D

I really hope you don't think that Red Alert 2 was a simulator. It was about as far off from a simulator as could possibly be. The closest game i've seen to real tactical simulation is Ground Control. They incorporated most of the stuff that matters. Terrain, elevation, target facing, UNITS (not just one tank, but a platoon of 3 or 4) and a bunch of other stuff. About the only thing they didn't include was infantry's ability to entrench, but oh well. Unfortunately, that game was buggy and didn't catch on much. :-\ Basically my point is, please don't refer to RA2 as a simulation when it's so so so not.

If you don't know, then why are you making statements about it?

And finally, i don't see how our economic system has anything to do with it. Commie.

Frosty
:-D

PS - This post made all in good humor

edit -- oops.

This message has been edited by Frosty on May 01, 2001 at 10:48 PM

You mentioned how Canadian invasion is unlikely. To this I will respond with the following: "..."
To not prepare for any contingency would be incompetent. It's called a militia. (btw, do you think Canada is the only country capable of attacking and eventually placing troops on American soil?)

As for gun production. No shit we manufacture weapons. We have the largest military in the world. Do you think we arm them by giving them zippos and teaching our troops how to light farts?

Kuru, i mentioned Switzerland earlier, no one seemed to notice though. They're absolutely armed to the teeth over there.

Oh, and DKB, the ability to vote someone out of office means jack if a despotic ruler manages to manipulate the political engine somehow and take away certain freedoms. Stranger things have happened.

and that whole dictator crap thingy? guns wont make a blind bit of difference sadam, hitler, and that guy who did ethnic cleansing (kill people) a while ago all did that by brainwashing the people not by just some powerful political coup thankyou. guns wouldnt have and dont make a blind bit of difference. there have been many experiments to show that when people have responsibility taken away from them they can be made to do anything.

people assume that people in the nazi party or the people who did the ethnic cleansing were some sort of evil psycho messed up people. actually they were ordinary people like you and me. think i'm wrong what about that famous experiment in america (good example as it used normal americans like you guys) whereby a team of volentear students (again like most of you guys) were spilt up into two teams one given the role of prisoners the others as the prison wardens. after just a few days these people who were closest freinds before were subjecting the inmates to a dictatorship rule starving them restricting basic human rights and general bullying because they'd been given the means to do so.

my point. whatever people say about whether they are too many guns or not. the idea behind owning one to stop government power abuse is bullshit cause individuality isnt going to be enuff to stand up to the rest of the population as it jumps on the badnwagon of brainwashing

edit: raaaa 3rd page (dont let this take your mind off my point dammit!)
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what do you mean vodka isnt an officially recognised AMD coolant

This message has been edited by Dark Knight Bob on May 01, 2001 at 12:41 PM

he instituted total gun control.

he rounded up the guns from legal gun owners, and he took them away. so when good, decent german people realized the evil things hitler was up to, they couldn't have fought him if they'd tried. hitler, as stark-raving crazy as he was, knew he couldn't get away with his plans if the populous was armed. he knew that not even the nazi army could've kept down an armed citizenry that was willing to fight and die for freedom, so before he took their freedom, he took their guns.

could an armed body of ordinary citizens have stopped him before six million jews lost their lives? maybe, maybe not. but at least they could've tried.

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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost

quote:

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Originally posted by Frosty:
I really hope you don't think that Red Alert 2 was a simulator. It was about as far off from a simulator as could possibly be.

---

Simulator, RTS, whatever.. I slipped.. for a second I thought DKB did too.

quote:

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Originally posted by kuru:
adolf hitler *did* do awful things to germany, institute a dictatorship, and commit genocide. but he did one thing between becoming german president and instituting the "final solution" (now known as the holocaust).

he instituted total gun control.

he rounded up the guns from legal gun owners, and he took them away. so when good, decent german people realized the evil things hitler was up to, they couldn't have fought him if they'd tried. hitler, as stark-raving crazy as he was, knew he couldn't get away with his plans if the populous was armed. he knew that not even the nazi army could've kept down an armed citizenry that was willing to fight and die for freedom, so before he took their freedom, he took their guns.

could an armed body of ordinary citizens have stopped him before six million jews lost their lives? maybe, maybe not. but at least they could've tried.

---

Six million?.... I always believed that number to be at least a bit exaggerated.. and no I'm not a nazi.

... hey I was wondering what caused dysorderia to make this topic in the first place..

quote:

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Originally posted by solid:
Simulator, RTS, whatever.. I slipped.. for a second I thought DKB did too.

---

Thank god. Be careful, man!

MORE GUNS, LESS CRIME
by J. Lott

A great book, on how crime is reduced by gun ownership. A worthwhile read, oh and on the subject of gun ownership another MUST read is this little thing called the consitution, specifically the second amendment. :> )

quote:

---

kuru said:

adolf hitler *did* do awful things to germany, institute a dictatorship, and commit genocide. but he did one thing between becoming german president and instituting the "final solution" (now known as the holocaust).

he instituted total gun control.

he rounded up the guns from legal gun owners, and he took them away. so when good, decent german people realized the evil things hitler was up to, they couldn't have fought him if they'd tried. hitler, as stark-raving crazy as he was, knew he couldn't get away with his plans if the populous was armed. he knew that not even the nazi army could've kept down an armed citizenry that was willing to fight and die for freedom, so before he took their freedom, he took their guns.

could an armed body of ordinary citizens have stopped him before six million jews lost their lives? maybe, maybe not. but at least they could've tried.

---

is anyone besides me concerned that the american govt is slowly strangling gun ownership rights?

------------------
All that I know there was no God for me
Force that shatters all, absence of mortality

but it bothers the shit out of me that because i own a gun, right now, legally, one of these days a law could get passed that turns me into a felon over night. i've already faced that in one facet. if i want to move to new york, i have to leave my guns behind. even *owning* them if i go to new york, is a felony. it doesn't matter that i bought them legally, that i went through the background checks. pennsylvania calls me a citizen, new york would call me a criminal.

things are gettin *bad* for gun owners. and it's time for gun owners to stop buryin their heads in the sand and realize that soccer moms vote. rosie o'donnell votes. dianne feinstein votes. more gun owners need to vote.

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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost

quote:

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Originally posted by Dysorderia's malignantly tumored ass:
im from england, BUT I live in the USA

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if you dont like it GO THE FUCK HOME!

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Decaffinated coffee is like unleaded fuel, it tastes like shit.

quote:

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Originally posted by solid:
3. Because simply, Americans just feel tougher that way. I can't find any sort of divine artistic or some other sort of appreciation for a tool that is meant to kill other than the rush I get from knowing that I have the power to wipe out a human's (or any other life form's) life when I'm holding one.

4. Also because America is somewhat of a show-off. Or they sure as hell know how to make it seem like that way. C'mon- they really got the best of all the material things, and they're proud of it. Right now a number of people that are reading this are probably thinking "Damn straight!", but sometimes I get disgusted just watching those people say that- because the way America got to where they are.. it just has no honour in it. Most countries in fact, don't. I hate to see false pride, and American pride (which the majority of it, as I see, is false) can be for some the most easiest to distinguish and for some the most easiest to dismiss.

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Ok why is it every time someone steps up and has a problem with America solid is the first one to jump up and wave his dick around? Sounds like someone is jelous and is picking on the little American girl he secretly likes.

As for your first question, because violence solves everything. If two guys are fighting over a pie, and one guy shoots the other guy....THERES NOBODY LEFT TO FIGHT OVER THE PIE WITH. Now im not saying that everyone that has a gun is going to go on some rampant pie consuming rampage but just like switzerland(who apperently doesnt take any shit) How likely do you think that some other nation is gonna come rolling in. Not only do they have our military but 1 out of every 2 households is ready to bust a cap in thier ass. Also If some dumb fuck tries to break into and steal my wega im gonna bust a .45 in his ass.(Not the best for long range but when your close...nothing gets the point across better)

Next question. If you tired of seeing America "show off" DONT FUCKING WATCH. If you didnt watch your networks wouldnt show it. Just like Family Guy....If nobody watches it..THEY CANCEL IT. SO STOP FUCKING WATCHING.

Oh and a giant FUCK YOU to any forum nazi who's gonna give me shit about being off topic. This thread is just like all the rest of them that teeter back and forth, on and off topic till finally they end on Personguy's introduction of oil into his ass.

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Decaffinated coffee is like unleaded fuel, it tastes like shit.

quote:

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Originally posted by solid:

... hey I was wondering what caused dysorderia to make this topic in the first place..

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FYI solid
I created this topic because of the number of shootings in america today and the ease that one can obtain a gun(legally or not).

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Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

according to the FBI website, Law Enforcement Bulletin, September 1997, there were 192 million privately owned firearms in the United States. 65 million are handguns, 70 million are rifles, and 49 million are shotguns. Most gun owners in the survey were middle-aged, middle-class whites from rural areas. Forty-six percent of gun owners own them for protection against crime, and on any given day, 3 million adults carry a gun either on their person (1 million) or in their car or truck (2 million). (all 1997 stats).

according to the CDC, in its 1998 final report of national vital statistics, there were total of 30,708 persons died from firearm injuries in the United States. this includes murders, suicides, and accidents. this was also a 5.3\% decrease from 1997.

those are facts, as i could find, on the CDC and FBI websites. 192,000,000 guns. 30,000 deaths. keep in mind that the vast majority of those deaths were from murder, or intentional self-inflicted wounds. murder accounted for 56.7 and 39.4 percent of the deaths were suicide. the CDC also notes that less than 0.5\% of all hospital emergency room cases are firearms injuries. that's less than one in two hundred.

The FBI indicates that the average firearms owner is a middle class white male in rural america (but i'm all for bucking trends). of the firearms deaths in 1998, 96.1\% were murder and suicide. only 3.9\% were accidents. that means that in 1997, 1170 people of all ages died from accidents involving guns.

192,000,000 guns. 1170 accidental deaths.
keep in mind that in 1997, 4,051 people drowned. there were 37,324 fatal car accidents, in which a total of 42,013 people died. the NTSB also states that there are 185,000,000 cars on the road today. unfortunately i couldn't find any data on how many swimming pools and beaches there are in the united states.

but to break it down:

all of america's water - 4,051 accidental fatalities
185,000,000 cars ------- 42,013 accidental fatalities
192,000,000 guns -------- 1,107 accidental fatalities

food for thought.

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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost

quote:

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Originally posted by L33T_h4x0r_d00d:
Ok why is it every time someone steps up and has a problem with America solid is the first one to jump up and wave his dick around? Sounds like someone is jelous and is picking on the little American girl he secretly likes. <Snip>

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Hehe.. yea, you're right, I do that, and yes, I'm VERY well aware of it. To me, what I say sure as hell sounds valid, and I'm just checking more into it.

And by the way the american girl I liked was 6 years older than me :P.

....
And violence solved everything? That's a view even more radical than mine. I won't bother commenting more.

quote:

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Originally posted by the_desert_foxx:
Sorry frosty, but the idea that "a country which cannot defend itself against attack does not deserve to survive" has been around a helluva lot longer than this board or this "internet."
Yay Realism!

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Uh, I realize that. I never said that I came up with that, but it actually has nothing to do with whether a country DESERVES to survive or not, it's if they WILL. And history shows that if you can't defend your country, your culture/behaviors/ideas = gone. So what does the idea going beyond me have anything to do with anything except showing that I know something about what i'm talking about?

Also, you and Aero should "hook up." I bet she digs Rommel "impersonators." ;-)