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Forum: The Classroom
Topic: Heaven and Hell
started by: Psychosomatic_plague

Posted by Psychosomatic_plague on Mar. 11 2001,04:22

i've noticed a few "debatedable" religous topic so I thought I would post one on a lighter note. Those who believe in life after death and even most who don't have some personal vision of what heaven and hell look like/ consist of. so lets hear 'em.
i personal think heaven would boring and little cold at that altitude.

Posted by fire_502 on Mar. 11 2001,10:08

actually, i had a chem teacher one time explain to us why heaven would actually be hotter than hell...something about some pools of something...damnit, now i forgot. i'll see if anyone i know remembers...

Posted by askheaves on Mar. 11 2001,15:10

Hell is standing there talking to one of those assholes on the corner trying to get you to convert.

Heaven is sitting around all day with those same assholes who made it in and want nothing to do but talk to you some more.

I'd say we're screwed either way.

Posted by fire_502 on Mar. 11 2001,20:02

so do you believe in anything supernatural? i have had too many weird experiences not to think that there is something higher at work.

Posted by hal0 on Mar. 11 2001,20:23

I am an atheist. I don't believe in a god. I personally think that the Bible is the greatest science fiction book of all time. The only reason the bible was written was because some government or higher power needed to keep their people in line, and the bible is a great way to do that.

Don't do that. If you do that you are going to hell.

Follow the ways of the government. The king rules. You are going to heaven.

Flame away!

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hal0 ( < http://hal0.bastardize.net > )
the code was hard to write, I'm
going to damn well make it hard
to read

Posted by fire_502 on Mar. 11 2001,20:31

i'm not talking about God...do you believe in like psychic abilities and stuff? anything that can't be explained by the physical laws of nature.

Posted by Blain on Mar. 11 2001,21:05

quote:
Originally posted by hal0:
If you do that you are going to hell.

I thought it was supposed to make you go blind.

Hell = playing Diakatana(sp?) on a Mac for eternity.

Posted by askheaves on Mar. 11 2001,21:19

Hell is holding a pound of weed in your hand, but having no pipe or papers.

(I stole that)

Posted by Rhydant on Mar. 11 2001,21:23

nonono, its not having papers or a bong, its not having a lighter

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...when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

Posted by Dark Knight Bob on Mar. 11 2001,21:56

atheists really piss me off sometimes your all so fucking depressing dammit!

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Hey DKB shu'p with all that jibba jabber ya crazy foo!

Posted by fire_502 on Mar. 11 2001,23:10

no kidding! and they all smoke too much also.

Posted by solid on Mar. 12 2001,00:22

quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight Bob:
atheists really piss me off sometimes your all so fucking depressing dammit!

Agreed.
What's the evidence that god doesn't exist? It can't be the evidence that we don't have evidence that he does exist, because that's not evidence at all- that's just nothing (confused yet?).

Can we just both leave it alone untill we actually know what the deal is.

Posted by PersonGuy on Mar. 12 2001,02:05

Yah, my phisics teacher taught me that thing about heaven being hotter than hell too! It had something to do with compression based on souls having mass or something...

And yah, anthiests are depressing sometime! Sheeesh... just play the game. I mean, I may not belive in heaven or hell, but that's what makes laughing at South Park's versions even better!

Personally it seems to me that heaven and hell are just as enjoyable to the person who ends up there.

Heaven - only people who obey a strick abstaining code may get in. When they get there people will just stand around and talk about the weather, because that's what they enjoy doing.

Hell - people will be drinking, sex0ring, and anything else that's sin full... but hey, they'll enjoy that! Why would the devil feel the need to punish these people? They could all just smoke and sit on their asses and watch TV!

The only problem is when like some chick who is otherwise perfect had a sexual thought about a married man one time and didn't confess... SHE wouldn't enjoy hell...

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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >

Posted by hair on Mar. 12 2001,03:33

quote:
Originally posted by PersonGuy:
Yah, my phisics teacher taught me that thing about heaven being hotter than hell too! It had something to do with compression based on souls having mass or something...
Heaven - only people who obey a strick abstaining code may get in. When they get there people will just stand around and talk about the weather, because that's what they enjoy doing.
Hell - people will be drinking, sex0ring, and anything else that's sin full... but hey, they'll enjoy that! Why would the devil feel the need to punish these people? They could all just smoke and sit on their asses and watch TV!
The only problem is when like some chick who is otherwise perfect had a sexual thought about a married man one time and didn't confess... SHE wouldn't enjoy hell...

I haven't decided where I stand as far as no god/God. But if you are (supposedly) taking what you said from the Bible, then you have some pretty jacked up beliefs or at the least extreme misinterpretation.

Let me guess... Catholic background?

Posted by Kintara on Mar. 12 2001,04:35

Heaven and Hell were borrowed from the Zoroasterianists, right? I find Christianity ridiculous because its a belief structure based on conjecture and Jewish Law/myth, along with anything else that would make it more popular. Its a ideological tick that uses the same tactics as the tobacco industry, "Hook 'em While They're Young". Jesus was probably a man ahead of his time, and very smart. Listen to what he says. A lot of it makes sense, the part not totally FUBARed by hear-say and Jewsish mythology bable. That's why Christianity is all the more worse.

If you believe in God, then keep it simple, God exists and He may care enough about us to give us an afterlife. Personally I think its doubtful.

PS- Sorry for not keeping it light, I really can't help myself.

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--Kintara

Posted by hal0 on Mar. 12 2001,05:48

i personally don't believe in any life after death. when you die. that's it. you go into the ground or whatever, and you are no longer an entity on this earth or are concious. you don't feel anything or do anything. you just chill in the ground.

i believe that the only reason for people believing in heaven and hell and religion and such is that they don't want to believe that when they die, that's the end. they need to go to a 'better place'

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hal0 ( < http://hal0.bastardize.net > )
the code was hard to write, I'm
going to damn well make it hard
to read

Posted by hal0 on Mar. 12 2001,10:48

It's not depressing. I believe in the truth. I don't want to shield my eyes with a bunch of god bullshit so it will make me feel better. Why beat around the bush?

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hal0 ( < http://hal0.bastardize.net > )
the code was hard to write, I'm
going to damn well make it hard
to read

Posted by kuru on Mar. 12 2001,11:39

i'm pretty damn sure there are things out there that are beyond comprehension by human beings right now. i've got no reason to think those are 'higher' forces. as for heaven and hell, i don't think they exist.

i think we either die with regret on our shoulders (hell) or are ready and accepting of the end when it comes (heaven).

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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost

Posted by Dark Knight Bob on Mar. 12 2001,13:06

people who go on about how god cant exist just cos there life is fucked up and they want something to blame that is conveinently for them some "god" and go on about how christianity is bullshit cos its all about living a life in denial thats all bollox. i aint no christian but that doesnt mean that i think they're a bunch of wacko cult types. i think that the idea that you have to make some sort of sacrifices in your life holds true i mean mabye we have to show in someway that we enjoy this life and that we want it to continue afterwards.

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Hey DKB shu'p with all that jibba jabber ya crazy foo!

Posted by PersonGuy on Mar. 12 2001,14:11

quote:
Originally posted by hair:
if you are (supposedly) taking what you said from the Bible, then you have some pretty jacked up beliefs or at the least extreme misinterpretation.

It's funny how you quoted my ENTIRE post without reading any of it.

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<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >

Posted by fire_502 on Mar. 12 2001,15:26

quote:
Originally posted by PersonGuy:
Yah, my phisics teacher taught me that thing about heaven being hotter than hell too! It had something to do with compression based on souls having mass or something...

that sounds good from a physics perspective, but mine was from chem...all we could come up with was that the temperature of the sulfureous pits of hell would be lower than the temp required to be pools of something in heaven, i think it was like platinum or something but i don't remember. anyway, the temp needed for whatever element the pools are made of to be liquid had to be higher.

Posted by sureal-killer on Mar. 12 2001,15:49

hey cool there are pools of liquid platinum is that for swimming or drinking. i'll bring my swim trunks just in case.
i personal don't belive in god because there is no "evidence" but i am not against people who do belive. hey i calpped for tinker bell too. some day i might find a use for religion,

Posted by hair on Mar. 13 2001,01:25

quote:
Originally posted by PersonGuy:
It's funny how you quoted my ENTIRE post without reading any of it.

No, I'm just trying to figure out where you are coming from. Are those just your made up heaven and hell (perfectly fine, I can't dispute whether you're right or not) or are your beliefs based on something. If so, I'm wondering what it is, because its not the Bible.

Disclaimer:
No one said it had to be based on the Bible.
I don't know whether the Bible is the "word of God" or not either.
I'm just curious as to why you think that.

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If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. - William Blake

Posted by masher on Mar. 13 2001,10:26

quote:
Originally posted by fire_502:
actually, i had a chem teacher one time explain to us why heaven would actually be hotter than hell...something about some pools of something...damnit, now i forgot. i'll see if anyone i know remembers...

From my scant knowledge of the Bible, here goes...

Hell is supposed to be fire and brimstone. Brimstone is molten sulphur, which exists above 112.8 °C, and below 444.6 °C

Heaven is supposed to be lit with the light of seven suns, or seven times closer to the sun or something like that... damn, my books are at uni... anyway, the resultant temperature is higher than the melting point of sulphur.

Therefore, heaven is hotter than hell.
< http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=hell+heaven+temperature >
The first couple of hits reproduce the same thing...

quote:

From PersonGuy
Yah, my phisics teacher taught me that thing about heaven being hotter than hell too! It had something to do with compression based on souls having mass or something...

Someone (supposedly) wrote that down as an answer to an exam question...

Try this link < http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=mole+soul+hell >

There are quite a few hits there...

edit: fix ubb and add note

Note: The urls were added after i finished writing the rest of the post...

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"The theory of gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love." - Einstein

This message has been edited by masher on March 14, 2001 at 05:28 AM

Posted by masher on Mar. 13 2001,10:33

< http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/hell.htm >

Read this one.

It goes on to say that the upper limit of 444.6 C only works with an atmosphere at 1 atm.

It figures out the atmospheric pressure using various Biblical references to be 2.86 atm, => the temp in hell is higher than the temp in heaven. It doesn't give you a figure, and I can't either. The vapour pressures and temperatures of sulphur are not among the values that I tend to remember...

Oh yeah.. Heaven is supposed to be 525°C. It depends on how you interpret the passage in the Bible though...

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"The theory of gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love." - Einstein

Posted by Jynx on Mar. 13 2001,20:05

OK, since most everyone here is analytical and logical, consider this: do you trust that things you see are meaningful? Are they a relatively accurate reflection of reality?

Let's say that you have been kidnapped. When you wake up, you're on a train, and you have no idea where in the world you are. Finally, you ride past a group of rocks that spell out "WELCOME TO SCOTLAND". So, are you in Scotland?

The question then becomes how did those rocks get there. If they were intentionally placed there, then you have a very good indicator of where you are. However, if by some amazing chance these rocks were moved around by forces of nature until they formed this specific pattern, you would not have a good indicator of where you were.

Now, for the slow, let's parallel. You have eyes. If there is no god, then your eyes are just some freak accident of nature, and you CANNOT trust that what you see is any reflection of reality, just as you cannot assume that those rocks are an accurate refection of reality. However, if you believe in a higher being who in some way crafted us, then obviously what you see means something, because that god crafted your eyes for a specific purpose.

I have thought about this argument ever since I heard it in college, and I can't find any good counter-arguments. Can you?

Please bear in mind that while I believe in the Christian God and Jesus (NOT necessarily "Catholicism", etc.), this argument assumes nothing except a higher power guiding our creation. let's try to keep it that generalized, mmkay?

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--Jynx

I used to be a kleptomaniac, but then I took something for it.

Posted by Psychosomatic_plague on Mar. 13 2001,21:17

like the kids who paint 88mph or whatever on the speed limit signs those rocks could have been placed their by a "higher conscienceness" only to give the pasengers on the train something to think about. I beleve that reality is all relative. I either see the rocks and use this imput to come to some rational decision based on the facts i have, however if my eyes were closed and i never saw the rocks do they even exist?
same as the tree falling on a beaver, if no one is around to hear it did the beaver really cry out in pain?

----------------------

"Question Reality"

Posted by Dark Knight Bob on Mar. 13 2001,21:32

and there go the athiests again thinking that the only decerning force acting in this universe is fact and that something as simple as believing in something even though there is no proven evidence is stupid. well if thats the case why is it that certain events take place in peoples lives that seem to be beyond their reach but having faith in something even though everything tells you its wrong ends up with you actually achieving it and becoming a better person you dismiss religious faith cos people mention god and you go "oohhh thats all weird bullcrap my life seems fine as it is we all die and thats it" atheists ALWAYS go on about how believing in a god is just some form of denial to the fact that we're gonna die. they go to science to prove because it well all fine and good but thats like using a lemon to turn a screw science and faith arent the same thing you'll never be able to prove god exists cos thats not how it works.

think about something i once read for a minute or two.

"if god came down to earth and declared he was god and did all these amazing things to prove it. would we still believe him"

now just think about that and what i said above about how you cant prove he exists.

Posted by TallAssAzn on Mar. 14 2001,00:37

I don't believe in God, or the Bible, or whatever else you've got up your seleeves. Everything I've done I've done by myself or with the help of my friends and family -- not God or Jesus or anything else.

However, there's no proof as to wheteher God or other religious figures actually exist or not, so there's no way anyone can stand up and say, "God does/does not exist." One thing is for sure though: We'll all find out soon enough. Personally, I'm in no rush to find out.

Here's some food for thought:
Everybody going to hell has done something considered "sinful" by strict followers of Christianity and any other religions that have some sort of "hell" idea. Now, those acts considered "sinful" cover a pretty broad range, so... What's wrong with hell? It's pretty much just one big party, at least, in some parts... Think of all the cool people down there! Alright, I'm done.

When you realize you’re wrong, come back to reality with the rest of us instead of keeping your head in that dream world the rest of us call your ass.
- D. Wong

This message has been edited by TallAssAzn on March 14, 2001 at 07:44 PM

Posted by Prometheus on Mar. 14 2001,01:24

I thought hell was a punishment, not a party.

Posted by hal0 on Mar. 14 2001,01:30

this is funny how everyone is analyzing the temperatures of heaven and hell but don't you think that if they existed, you couldn't explain anything about the place.. and maybe it's not a place.. maybe it's a dream state? who knows.. i don't believe it.

anyway, about dark's rant on atheists:
God has never helped me or anyone in this world. Consider this: How many fucking religions are in this world? Which one is the right one? The only thing that religion does is fuel debate (i.e. right now), which leads to anger, then hate, then war, and destruction. The fuckin' israelis and palestinians are still wacking each other over a piece of land that is so fucking sacred to them. This is what makes me sick. If these people didn't believe in god, it wouldn't be a damn thing, but no.. we have to protect our lands.. my grandfather owned this land.. get the fuck off my land.. I'm going to shoot you you motherfucker... god bequeathed this land to me.. AHHHHH!!!!

I got a little carried away there. Anyway, what has god ever done for anyone? If you ever play sports, you know how everyone prays to god that they win... does god pick sides? i love these dumbass singers that get up on stage at their acceptance speeches and say "First and foremost. I would just like to thank god, because without him, I wouldn't be here today" or some variant. Like wtf.. Did god have any influence on you asshole? What.. he didn't like Eminem but he loves Britney fucking Spears?

Damn this should be in the rants section.

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hal0 ( < http://hal0.bastardize.net > )
the code was hard to write, I'm
going to damn well make it hard
to read

Posted by Dark Knight Bob on Mar. 14 2001,01:37

have you actually looked at what sin is considered if you ignore all the bullcrap of catholics. basically its about not kiling people or abusing sex in a casual way treat people nicely dont rip peopole off or steal dont lie or cheat on people.

what happens if you do any of these things. well if you feel guilty then you ask for forgiveness and if you really feel bad abou what you've done its sorted.

christians have lied and stuff and probably not asked for forgiveness cos they didnt think it was that bad but doesnt mean you go to hell. i've had my parents talk about christianity all my life and all that it involves when you sift through all the bullcrap that the media and stuff dish out is that you just have to accept that god exists and he loves you and you want to do what he asks of you to live a better life.

now for most normal people that isnt that much now is it. doesnt mean you have to do it now. christ sake i havent and i probably wont till i actually figure out how to open them bloody corn beef cans but dosnt mean you should ignore the whole idea of an afterlife and just say "thats it we die" i mean you go on about science and shit. well how about a bit of basic probability.whats the harm in believing in god even if you dont follow christianity at least theres more of a chance that you'll actually get into heaven if it does exist. wont you feel the twat if at the end god turns round and goes "ahhhhhh not so tough now are you atheist boy! you go into oblivion cos you didnt even bother considering i existed well by bye into the reject bin for losers you go!"

EDIT: cos i felt like pressing the damn edit button thats why! i have my rights!!!

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Hey DKB shu'p with all that jibba jabber ya crazy foo!

This message has been edited by Dark Knight Bob on March 14, 2001 at 08:37 PM

Posted by Dark Knight Bob on Mar. 14 2001,01:39

oh yeah and on that israli thing the reason they do it is cos thy all have moustaches wouldnt you be pissed off if you had to walk around with one of them allll day

Posted by askheaves on Mar. 14 2001,03:10

Firstly, DKB, I believe that it is a mortal sin to forsake correct punctuation... or the use of any punctuation.

Like I've said before. I don't care if God exists. I'm going to live my life like a good human. I'm going to respect others. I'm going to go to work. I'm going to find a wife and have kids. I'm going to contribute to humanity in a good way (already doing that by building technology to help the environment). I'm going to make people remember me in a good light.

If God exists, he'll understand that I've followed most of the important doctrines of some religions, except for vowing allegiance to a nebulous concept of an almighty. I'm going to eat ham. I'm going to eat cow. I'm going to have pre-marital sex. I'm going to work on Saturday. I'm going to be selfish enough to make a good life for myself.

God has never personally affected my life. I don't really want him to. I'm happy and thankful for the cards I've been dealt by him, or chance). I've worked my ass off since then and am just starting to reap the rewards.

As for the afterlife. If he exists, he's not going to be so much of a cry-baby that he would send me to hell for the indescretions I've had. If he does, then screw him. I'm not going to worship that sort of an asshole diety.

Posted by justcozz on Mar. 14 2001,03:41

quote:
Originally posted by TallAssAzn:
I don't believe in God... However, there's no proof as to wheteher God or other religious figures actually exist or not... We'll all find out soon enough. Personally, I'm in no rush to find out.

My thoughts exactly. I say have fun while we are here. I'll be sure to come back and let you all know what it is like. Whenever that happens.

quote:
Originally posted by askheaves:
...I don't care if God exists. I'm going to live my life like a good human. I'm going to respect others. I'm going to go to work. I'm going to find a wife and have kids. I'm going to contribute to humanity in a good way... I'm going to make people remember me in a good light... If God exists, he'll understand that I've followed most of the important doctrines of some religions...

I like this to. Be nice have fun who cares. We will all end up there eventually. Might as well make the most of our time here.

I know when I die I want to be doing something cool and i'd like to know it was going to happen. 'Aw hell, i'm going to die how do I want to do it?' Do something no one has ever done before... any way.

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"Who needs television... I have ISDN." -- Ben Gross

Posted by Dark Knight Bob on Mar. 14 2001,20:37

you can cram your punctuation and spelling type stuff up yo ass

thats how am i talk and type and thats how its gonna stay!

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Hey DKB shu'p with all that jibba jabber ya crazy foo!

Posted by solid on Mar. 15 2001,01:59

Just believe in god and have good intentions. If he does exist, I'm sure he'll understand why I did what I did. If he doesn't.. well I didn't lose much anyways.

If you do something bad it should usually be out of anger or revenge. If you have general good intentions not much harm will come your way- causing you not to do something bad.

How was that?

Posted by hal0 on Mar. 15 2001,05:23

quote:
whats the harm in believing in god even if you dont follow christianity at least theres more of a chance that you'll actually get into heaven if it does exist

My religion that i was baptised to forgives all sins. If a so-called god exists, the guy is going to forgive me for not believing him. But I don't practice, follow, or believe my religion anyway, so fuck it.

Religion = Punishment

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hal0 ( < http://hal0.bastardize.net > )
the code was hard to write, I'm
going to damn well make it hard
to read

Posted by Dark Knight Bob on Mar. 15 2001,23:06

"Physics is not a religion. If it were, we'd have a much easier time raising money." - Leon Lederman

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Hey DKB shu'p with all that jibba jabber ya crazy foo!