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god has a HARD ON for marines - Full Metal Jacket

Every variation of the domestic dog has developed in the last 12000 years, with the help of man's hand, turning wolf into poodle. That's an amazing example of what can biologically happen in a short time.

Now, imagine that entire time period being extended by 100 times. You're starting to see how long 'modern' humans have been around. That's a hell of a long time. VERY VERY VERY long. Many things can happen randomly, and some stuff is coerced.

About the only evidence I have against evolution is that there are still ugly people walking around.

quote:

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Originally posted by askheaves:
bout the only evidence I have against evolution is that there are still ugly people walking around.

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haha that and white man's penis != black man's.

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god has a HARD ON for marines - Full Metal Jacket

And for askheaves-the reason for this is that I believe (my hypothesis) is that human evolution ceased with modern medicine. The phrase "Survival of the Fittest" has been ecentially changed to "survival of the Richest".

What do you mean you don't think Einstein could "get" that one? That doesn't make much sense. Einstein wasn't a biologist.

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Ah screw it.
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ICEGAMING.COM

This message has been edited by MattimeoZ80 on April 14, 2001 at 05:42 PM

Please don't flame my ass, I'm tired. I just finished writing a paper for history, and I've already had this discussion on icegaming.com's forums. Very tiring.

edit: "please don't flame my ass" addition

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<º(((><

This message has been edited by TallAssAzn on April 14, 2001 at 06:32 PM

so yeah, Aero... fuck you. I'm sorry, but Christians actually piss me off. All the damned missionaries forcing your religion on people who don't give a damn. Denying scientific fact... It just pisses me the fuck off. Ok. And evolution IS real. It fucking happens. Is it the creation of man? Hell if I know, but evolution happens. That's life. It's such a slow process that we can't see it in our life span. Are going to deny that mutations happen? No, you aren't, because they do. A mutation is the physical aspects of a organism changing in rapid succession due to a change in their envirment. Evolution is the same thing. If, let's say, there was no ozone layer on our planet, then life would be much different. And this isn't if all the sudden the ozone disappeared, this is if it was never there. We would have evolved thicker skins or hairier bodies to block out the radiation. That's evolution.

So yeah. I'm right, you're wrong. Personal celebration for my rightousness, a good ol' middle finger in your general direction, and it's over. Don't argue either, because I will verbally drop kick your ass to Mars, so you can evolve bigger lungs to breathe. Bitch.

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Spydir Web - < http://netsyndrome.net/spydirweb/ >
Net Syndrome - < http://www.netsyndrome.net/ >

Sometimes you're the dog, sometimes you're the hydrant...

quote:

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Originally posted by Spydir Web:
Bitch.

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<º(((><

Aw, fuck it. For you lazy people, I'll post there myself so you don't have to look for it.

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A good programmer is someone who looks both ways on a one-way street

quote:

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From Aero:
where did the raw materials come from?

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A little blip in spacetime. The basic tenant of thermodynamics is that you can't get something for nothing. But that is only when averaged over time. In a vacuum, there are lots of virtual particles that pop into existance and annhilate each other before the universe notices them. So, on a long timescale, the energy of a vacuum is zero, but if you divide up your time bins, eventually, the energy becomes non-zero.

This is something for nothing.

This is part of the big-bang/expansion theory. If the Big Crunch happens, then all the energy in the universe becomes nothing. Therefore, energy is conserved. But on the shorter timescale, it isn't.

Thats my AUDŨ.02 (~USŨ.0000001) for the moment.

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"The theory of gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love." - Einstein

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I have yet to meet a C compiler that is more friendly and easier to use than eating soup with a knife.

quote:

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Originally posted by CatKnight:
mmm...quantum jitter

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physicists 0wn engineers

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"The theory of gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love." - Einstein

w00tah!

quote:

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Originally posted by CatKnight:
yeah but engineering+physics owns j00!

w00tah!

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/me rethinks college majors and goals.

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<º(((><

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"I am not a Marxist." -- Karl Marx

This message has been edited by ic0n0 on April 15, 2001 at 06:53 AM

Physics + engineering + chemistry 0wns j00

MWUHAHAHA

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"The theory of gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love." - Einstein

quote:

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Originally posted by Aero:
Where did the universe and all the raw materials come from?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Aero:
I'm a firm beliver in de-evolution, since I see it Every day!

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quote:

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Popular Science Magazine, April 2001.
An Interview between Popular Science and MIT physicist Alan Guth

PS: What do you think is the public's greatest misconception about the Big Bang theory?

Guth: Many people think of the Big Bang as a small egg of matter that explodes out into empty space.
That's not the way the Big Bang theory works at all.
The Big Bang really had no center; the Big Bang was everywhere at once.
And that's a very hard thing to explain.

---

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Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

This message has been edited by Dysorderia on April 15, 2001 at 03:12 PM

probably in bathroom...

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Spydir Web - < http://netsyndrome.net/spydirweb/ >
Net Syndrome - < http://www.netsyndrome.net/ >

Sometimes you're the dog, sometimes you're the hydrant...

quote:

---

They didn't come from anywhere.
They were already there.
The "action=equal and/or opposite reaction" theory is now no longer restricted to energy and motion.
It is now beginning to apply to matter as well.

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only in closed systems. i don't think the univerise is actually considered a closed system, but i might be wrong about that.

This message has been edited by CatKnight on April 15, 2001 at 03:19 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by Aero:
But they are Still dogs! I'm an advanced dog breeder, and I've been breeding dogs half my life, and if you put 100 different varieties/breeds of dogs into a pen with permanent food and water and leave them for 20 years, when you come back, all the dogs will look pretty much the same. Can anyone here give some CONCLUSIVE proof on evolution that's over 100 years old? I'll say it again-Where did the universe and all the raw materials come from? I'm a firm beliver in de-evolution, since I see it Every day!
I heard some scientists at Oxford figured out that the odds of "evolution" occuring were a 9 followed by 56 zeros. I don't even think Einstein could "get" that one. I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't bet on those odds!

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HERESAY! BULLSHIT!
That's what this is, "AERO".
You don't happen to like the "Scientific" theory of "HOW" things "CAME" into being, so "YOU" just decided that you would come on Detnet and start bullshitting about "Oh, i'm a Dog trainer, blah blah blah yada yada".
If you don't want to believe evolution and the Big Bang theory, that's fine by me and everyone else here at Detnet.
JUST DON'T GO AROUND FORCING YOUR SHIT DOWN OTHER PEOPLE'S THROATS.

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Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

quote:

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Originally posted by Spydir Web:
what page of PS is that on? I got the mag a couple days ago but never read it... can't find it either...

probably in bathroom...

---

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Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

also, the most common examples that fanatical creationists cite as proof that evolution doesn't happen (i.e. the nebraska man) were never actually scientific discovery.

the nature of evolution has been supported by the fossil record, with carbon 14 dating being the most reliable means of accurate age testing.

animals such as sharks, alligators, and crocodiles are wonderful for the study of evolution, because they haven't changed much in millions of years, while other things have changed very drastically.

there are also residual bones in animals today that were present in similar animals from millions of years ago, such as bones resmbling the remnants of legs in a few species of snakes.

overall, evolution happens so slowly that it's hard to fit it into human perspective. to one human, a hundred years is a long, long time. to primate kind, a hundred years is nothing. the blink of an eye.

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kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost

Evolution is a fact, you can't deny it. But I guess that there might be an approach to it that doesn't make you feel like you are just some random acids put together to genes, Aero. I recommend that you read the new novel by Jostein Gaarder (the "Sophie's World" author), the title should be something like "Maya or the mystery of life", it is a rather good book about the different ideas of how mankind came to exist, a bit messy in the usual Gaarder style though. Then, there is an age-old movie with Spencer Tracy about someone who gets "flamed" because he supports the Evolution theory, it is rather cool because it shows how hard it was at first for people to prove that Evolution is true, and it also shows how senseless it can be to adhere to the old dogmae of Creationism without having a proof for them. I'm sorry I don't know the English title of the movie...

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I can resist everything except Temptation. - Oscar Wilde

quote:

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Originally posted by kuru:
one of the theories regarding origin of the universe that is currently floating around is that it has been expanding, contracting, exploding, and expanding again for all infinity. therefore the raw materials didn't come from anywhere, they were already here.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dysorderia:

They didn't come from anywhere.
They were already there.

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Telnet - Reach out and finger someone

This message has been edited by Dysorderia on April 15, 2001 at 04:03 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by Aero:
...Christianity has more backing it up than evolution...As for the "primordial soup" and "big bang" theories, where did the raw materials come from?

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Where did the Christian God come from?

quote:

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Originally posted by whiskey@throttle:
Where did the Christian God come from?

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from my invisible friend's methane gases (aka - farts). No, seriously. See, you all need to start believing in Jimmie-ism (Jimmie's, my invisible friend, religion). See, about 3,241,280,975,359,785,023,498,572,349,587 years ago (approx. estimate) this invisible dude was walking about in this really big black room, and let one rip. Hense the "Big Bang". His methane gases fluxuated around in the room for a real long time, and that's how it all began. The gases also compressed together to make every god and everything you could ever think of., hense Possiblitism (my religion).

See, this is why some people just always smell like shit. they're compressed poo.

edit -

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Spydir Web - < http://netsyndrome.net/spydirweb/ >
Net Syndrome - < http://www.netsyndrome.net/ >

Sometimes you're the dog, sometimes you're the hydrant...

This message has been edited by Spydir Web on April 15, 2001 at 05:41 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by CatKnight:
the universe is at max 2*10^10 years old. so yeah.

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edit- i remember something about a large black hole that was 81 light years across (i really cant remember, but this sounds right enough.) and before this discovery they had estimated that the age of the universe was 12 billion years, but for something of this magnitude to form it would have taken a lot longer than that. :P

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god has a HARD ON for marines - Full Metal Jacket

This message has been edited by melk0r on April 15, 2001 at 06:25 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by Kintara:
Take dog breeding

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Dog breeding is probably not the best example -- there's someone influencing the outcome. There's a subtle difference between the evolution in dog breeding and evolution of a distinct species. Different breeds of dog are still the same species, aren't they? In order for dog breeding to apply, there'd have to be some being watching over us....
I'm a Creationist because I believe in God and that's what God did. I'm not going to argue it with you -- that's pointless when I'm not going to change my mind. =)
I do hope I haven't convinced you that I'm closed-minded simply because I don't agree with you. That would be hypocritical.

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Necesse est multos timeat quem multi timent.

quote:

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Originally posted by melk0r:
and you know this because.. your general knowledge is exceeding that of your bullshitting factor.. or ..?

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idiot. before you accuse me of bullshitting, you better get your fucking facts straight. i've made this point before-just because YOU don't know something doesn't mean someone else (or thousands of other scientists) don't.

quote:

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edit- i remember something about a large black hole that was 81 light years across (i really cant remember, but this sounds right enough.) and before this discovery they had estimated that the age of the universe was 12 billion years, but for something of this magnitude to form it would have taken a lot longer than that. :P

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12 billion is 1.2*10^10 years. this is the current estimate. i originally said the maximum age is 2*10^10 years, because cosmologists can see when the big bang happend, sort of. they know it couldn't have been more than longer than this.

and one last point-i fucking hate it when people say "i remember somewher someone said blah blah" and uses that as an argument. you most definately misread or misunderstood whatever it was that you got that.

It gives a good theory as to the creation of the god as well as the evolution of mankind.

All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, theres no such thing as death, life is only a dream in which imagination of ourselves.
If this seems familiar to anyone consider your earth...

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"I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness..."

quote:

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Originally posted by Psychosomatic_plague:
I stopped reading the post when they got over one screen in length. so I am assuming tat we are off the subject enough for me to post my theory;

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Asshead

Firstly, we're very much on topic. If we were off topic, then it would be inappropriate for you to post something on. To not read the whole thread (or even put in a minimum effort) and chime in with some drug induced babble that was whispered in your ear as you talked, though you were alone in the room whacking it to Jennifer Lopez's dress from last year's Grammy's (or was it just your Grammy?), is downright rude. It could have been possible for you fake it, but to declare your contempt for the people's opinions here is beyond asshood.

Secondly, I agree with you on the bundles of energy thing. However, you started trailing off into the bottle at the end there... did I catch a niner in there?

Oh, and Evolution rules. I'm loving this opposible thumb and large cranial capacity. If only the universe had just not been created 4 minutes ago by Jimmie...

quote:

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Originally posted by kuru:
the nature of evolution has been supported by the fossil record, with carbon 14 dating being the most reliable means of accurate age testing.

---

C-14 is only good to about 50 ka BP. (50000 yrs ago)

To go back further, you would probably use U/Pb or Pb/Pb dating. You could try K/Ar, but you run the risk of the Ar escaping the rock and giving you a wrong age.

There are various other methods of dating, but I won't go into them here...

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"The theory of gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love." - Einstein

one of the biggest problems with evolution is that scientists have a hard time explaining it to people. Evolution is an observed process. We can watch it happen in nature, and we can replicate it in the lab.

Some interesting facts :

- Evolution is a FACT. It has been directly observed in the here and now. There are thousands (if not millions) of studies documenting extinction and mutation of species in the present age. We have thousands of examples of a species splitting, so the new species cannot breed with the old one. Furthermore, the fossil record shows that this process has been going on for a couple of billion years!!!

- Given the right conditions, the generation of life is not a very LOW probability. It's quite the opposite - with the RIGHT CONDITIONS, and enough time, the probability of some form of life evolving is very HIGH. It only takes ONE molecule to start the process going. Even if the probability of a DNA molecule reproducing successfully is 1 in a billion, under the "right conditions" the number of DNA molecules forming is so high (MUCH more that a billion) that it's almost certain that ONE of them is going to make it.

- The early conditions of Earth were just right for life to form. We can tell this from the geographical and fossil records. If, in the lab, you make a chemical soup similar to the conditions on Earth a long, long time ago, and shoot lightning thru it, you'll get a weird mix of amino acids and other stuff... just the kind of molecules necessary for life.

- Even if the probability of life happening on any ONE planet is low, there are so many planets in the universe that the chances of life evolving on at least ONE of them is actually very HIGH. Earth happened to be one of the planets that made it.

- Computer models that incorporate pretty much everything we know about mutation rates, survival rates, etc. have shown that a structure as sophisticated as an eyeball can evolve from a single light-sensitive cell in around 5000 generations. The leap from a "normal" cell to a light-sensitive one isn't much - just ONE error during gene repliation can do it.

- Evolution says NOTHING about morals, right and wrong, or anything of the sort. This is probably the biggest problem people have with it! But it's not evolution's fault, it's the fault of people who expect that someone else besides us gets to make that stuff up.

- The relationship between the Big Bang theory and evolution is tenuous at best. The Big Bang is a theory; it's an educated and somewhat testable guess as to how the Universe came about. Evolution is a theory that has proven itself so many times it's become an accepted fact.

In short... you can argue against the Big Bang theory, and maybe poke a hole in it here and there, but arguing AGAINST evolution is sort of like arguing against the existance of gravity. You can't win, because you're WRONG.

The way evolution works is that 1 species gets separated into groups in which they dont interbreed. Then after many years they are different enough due to outside factors that they cant breed any more. There is so much proof of this in action that you would have to be a grade A moron to think otherwise. Just go into a rainforest separated by a gulch and check a species of snake on each side. Or the Galapagos. Its blatantly obvious that evolution is the most resonable explanation.

Im not saying that if you said God created the Universe 6000 years ago, that it isnt possible. But thats like saying, I was created 10 seconds ago by God, with all my memories along with the rest of the Universe. Its possible but all the evidence points to the fact that everything slowly moved to this point over a billion years.

Let me stress that humans CANT even remotely fathom one BILLION years. If we could then evolution would have been conceeded as a truth a long time ago. But people can't so they create something like the Adam and Eve story.

If you got my computer to get a picture then change 1 pixel to a different color a billion times, when you came back its would be totally unrecognizable. Take dog breeding. You know that we created all these different types of dogs in 6000 years. Multiply that by 10000 times....

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"You've soiled my dickey!"

--Kintara

This message has been edited by Kintara on April 15, 2001 at 12:46 PM

Nothing personal... but I did get off on that one

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"I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness..."

I dont even know why Im going here. Its ridiculous to argue this thing. But I would like to say that if you believe in Creationism then that means my analogy about being created 10 seconds ago makes just as much sense...

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"You've soiled my dickey!"

--Kintara

quote:

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Originally posted by askheaves:
It could have been possible for you fake it, but to declare your contempt for the people's opinions here is beyond asshood.

---

firstly i would like to clarify; I meant didn't read the post that are over i screen long individually like damien_s_lucifer's posted April 15, 2001 12:30 PM, only cause i haev a firm grasp ont eh theories of evolution.

secondly you are very much off the topic with the exception of Prometheus's theory on dog breeding, it had become ppl posting their invisble friend's opinions on the origin and age of the universe, and sizes of black holes.

thirdly I would like to ask you a question; do you get off by being a total ass? you can interprut that anyway you want.

This message has been edited by Psychosomatic_plague on April 16, 2001 at 08:18 AM

quote:

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Originally posted by Kintara:
Think about what "dogs" would look like after 60,000,000 years, if we kept on doing what were doing. Im sure that given that much time we could make mini giraffes and rhinos, or extra large ones.

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I'm just saying that it doesn't follow Darwin's theory. And if we influence the outcome, aren't we "playing God"? =)

quote:

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But I would like to say that if you believe in Creationism then that means my analogy about being created 10 seconds ago makes just as much sense...

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Please note that nowhere did I say that evolution does not happen. I just think that God created the heavens and the earth.

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Necesse est multos timeat quem multi timent.

quote:

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Please note that nowhere did I say that evolution does not happen. I just think that God created the heavens and the earth.

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so he created the heavesn and the earth, and then stop there and let physics take over? hmm...