Any recommendations? I want a .40 cal or 9mm, semi-auto, single action, and it must look cool

all the movie stars use them.. you should too!

------------------
"I'm not dumb. I'm smart in my own way."

The SAS use it. It must be good.

------------------
vegemite rocks!!!

Remember, its all your fault.

(added the url)

This message has been edited by masher on January 02, 2001 at 04:12 AM

The SAS use Glocks and HK MP-5S for CQB and that british bullpup rifle for everything else.(cant remember the name at this time)

------------------
Leaving the trees was a bad idea.

The .40SW is a nice calibre. Glock makes a nice compact carry in this calibre. It's the 23C (for compact). My mate had one and it's nice and comfortable to carry. Easy to maintain.
Another thing to consider is the design of the weapon and how you intend to carry it. Make sure you get a weapon with no snags on it, the Glocks, for example have a no snag foresight and a low profile rear sight. You don't want you pistol snagging a woollen sweater when you need it most.
You CAN get a firearm for under 蹢. Look for second hands. Most handguns are rated for approx. 100,000 rounds before you need to replace major parts.

However, if you will only use it for home defense, get a pump action 'riot' shotgun or the 'coachgun'. It's a side by side double 12 bore. It's cut down to minimum legal lenght and is about 跌 last I heard. It's based on the old shotguns used by the guy that rode 'shotgun' on the old western stagecoaches. Put some buckshot through a door with that and you're bound to hit someone. If you get a pistol for home use, remember to get some safety slugs so they don't go through the walls and hit someone innocent.

quote:

---

Originally posted by WillyPete:
However, if you will only use it for home defense, get a pump action 'riot' shotgun or the 'coachgun'. It's a side by side double 12 bore. It's cut down to minimum legal lenght and is about 跌 last I heard. It's based on the old shotguns used by the guy that rode 'shotgun' on the old western stagecoaches. Put some buckshot through a door with that and you're bound to hit someone. If you get a pistol for home use, remember to get some safety slugs so they don't go through the walls and hit someone innocent.

---

DUH! I forgot about the old stand by for home defense. Yes, the 12gage is the best for home defense. Hell if you light that thing off in a closed space even if you miss the guy he is not going to stand around and wait for another round.

The safety slugs for the pistol are great for another reason. they make a major mess of the guy you hit with them. The ones i have seen where the #12 shot in liquid teflon. They cant go through a wall and get your kid but when you drop one in a bad guy that #12 shot spreads out all over the place.

Remember kids, shoot them IN the house. If you shoot them outside drag them into the doorway so it looks like they where going in when you shot them.
When you do shoot someone aim for the middle of the biggest part you can see (center mass) and keep pulling the trigger till you have have to reload. You dont shoot till he goes down you shoot till he stops twitching (from the bullets slamming into his body)

------------------
Leaving the trees was a bad idea.

I didn't notice you'd also mentioned target shooting. For that you'll want a longer barrel, which makes it harder to carry. If you don't qualify for a carry license in your state though, go for a longer barrel. It makes shooting easier. You may want to consider also buying a second hand .22 like the Ruger. (Looks like the old german Lugers with a long, round, heavy barrel) They last for aeons and are really cheap to shoot a lot.
Using a .40 S&W is gonna cost you a lot for ammo if you use it for regular target practice. On the other hand, to be a responsible gun owner, you'll want to put a lot of rounds through it so that you're comfortable with it. To be confident with it, you'll also have to use the same ammo you intend to use for personal protection. ie: If you use Federal Hydrashoks, the ballistics will be totally different from the cheapo practice reloads that most gun shops palm off on you. You'll notice a difference in recoil and the amount of jams you may have, although the only jams I've had were with the cheap ammo, and not with the more expensive hollow points.

If you really intend to get deep into target shooting, you'll also want to check on the future add-on purchases you'll make, such as scopes, replacement barrels, compensators, competition triggers, etc.
The trusty old 1911(?) Colt '45 design seems to have the most variety in that regard.

The reason I wanted to go with the .40 cal is because it's probably the perfect size for home use. They seem to make walls very thin here. I agree with you all on the special loads for indoors.

As for carrying, a little birdie told me that it's extremely easy to get a carry permit in AZ, so I'll probably get one just to have it. I was looking at the Sigs for public use since they seem to have some nice compact versions, so does Colt (the 96G?).

And I'm not concerned about barrel length so much for target shooting. I'm more concerned with becoming skillful with a practical gun. I've really only shot handguns a few times in my life. I'm more a shotgun guy myself.

Dear Santa.... < http://www.securityarms.com/20001212/galleryfiles/288.htm >

Excellent Sporting Pistol:Kimber Elite. < http://www.securityarms.com/20001212/galleryfiles/894.htm >

For fans of Aliens: < http://www.securityarms.com/20001212/galleryfiles/108.htm >

Wolfguard, that British rifle - SA80. < http://www.securityarms.com/20001212/galleryfiles/108.htm >
Although it is shit and I think the SAS would rather use the M14.

That Ruger I spoke of: < http://www.securityarms.com/20001212/galleryfiles/rugermk2.htm >

My personal Fave: < http://www.securityarms.com/20001212/galleryfiles/558.htm >

This message has been edited by WillyPete on January 02, 2001 at 09:06 AM

????

------------------
<P:\>erson\Guy.exe -PersonGuy *pERSONgUY.cfg
< http://www.personguy.com >

Thanks for the numbers on the brit rifle. i just could not pull them out of my tired brain.

My fave will always be the M24 sniper system from the us army. i hits what i aims at up to 1500m.

The barret light 50 is great also. Something about being to call a head shot at 2 miles...

------------------
Leaving the trees was a bad idea.

check out this site for stunguns, batons, pepper spray, knuckle dusters, knives and other stuff
< http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com >

quote:

---

Originally posted by HOUND:
i personally think that stunguns are a much more efficient way of dealing with people, not only does it have the same effect that a gun does (obviously it scares them!!!)

---

ummmm, i don't think so

a gun can kill
a stun gun can't
which are you more afraid of?

you have to be right next to them to use the stun gun. plus a loud ass booming noise right behind me is gonna make me run a lot faster than some little jackass with a stun gun (tasers are different)

Ok im 20 feet away with a gun in my pocket and you are waving a stun gun. Who will win this fight? Ooooo you have a taser...BFD i wear a leather jacket. guess what? Its not going to go through.

If your going to fire a warning shot, fire it at your target. I figure the locked door and the fact that the fucknugget had to come through the window is enough warning.

------------------
Leaving the trees was a bad idea.

Place 2 in the driver's seat of your car. One in the seat and one in the seat back. Rewire your car alarm so that when the alarm goes off it does not make any noise but switches a relay that turns on the stun guns in 10 seconds. Add a motion sensor that turns on the stun guns every time it senses motion in the driver seat.

When you come out to your car the next morning and find the fucknugget in the car afrade to move, hit the pannic button (triggers alarm) wait for him to get shocked again, drag his ass out of the car and kick the shit out of him.

------------------
Leaving the trees was a bad idea.

When I refer to my warning shots, I think of the layout of my feable apartment where I can put a few shots in the air from another room when I realize that I'm being robbed. Then, I just train the gun on the door to my bedroom and wait. Maybe throw a flashlight into the hall to give some good illumination to that area.

If I'm looking at the guy, the only thing he's hearing is BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG CLICK THUD.

This message has been edited by Wen on January 03, 2001 at 08:41 AM

my reccomendation though, is to go to a reputable gunshop and spend quite a bit of time there. ask to see a few guns of different types, caliber, and from different manufacturers. figure out which one you're most comfortable holding.

another good one is to go to shooting ranges that rent guns, or go with friends that have different types of guns and try them out. you'll be best served by the gun that meets your needs, you're comfortable with, and doesn't break the bank.

and the other guys are right, for inside the house, there's still nothing like a 12 gauge. i prefer a pump action loaded with birdshot. if the sound of the action being worked doesn't scare off an intruder, you'll definately turn him into swiss cheese if you shoot him. saftey bullets are a great idea too, since they won't go through a wall and kill a neighbour, but they will liquify the internals of mr. burglar.

------------------
kuru
'sex is one of the most beautiful and natural things that money can buy' - steve martin

quote:

---

Originally posted by kuru:
i prefer a pump action loaded with birdshot. if the sound of the action being worked doesn't scare off an intruder...

---

Nothing quite grabs the ear like the sound of a pump action shotgun.

I figured you for a SW semi. They make a nice single stack semi (model 80?). Ruger has alway made a good gun.
I have a ruger 22 target rifle(single shot, bolt action) that will hold less than a dime at 100yards with the right loads. Then again that is what it was made for, not stoppng people.

------------------
Leaving the trees was a bad idea.

i love that gun, and i can reliably shoot a 1/2" group at 100 yards with it. i'm a little less accurate free standing, but hell, that's what trees are for. i don't know what i can hit laying down.

i love my guns and if those damned liberals ever succeed in destroying the second amendment, i will end up in prison or dead

glad to see others on this forum that are willing to talk firearms though. always knew you were a righteous dude, wolf.

------------------
kuru
'sex is one of the most beautiful and natural things that money can buy' - steve martin

It is the handgun that has killed more people than any other.

It is the only weapon, in the history of the US military, to have not logged a critical failure during combat.

It served in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and every clandestine operation in between.

It is the greatest handgun ever created.

Behold...

The Colt 1911 .45.

Look hard, and you can get one for about 逤...obviously semi-auto, single action.

It's a piece of Americana, and now that Colt's gone, now is the time to buy. If you can't find the real McCoy, their are decent copycats (i,e - ParaOrdinance, Brolin, etc.)

Whatever you do, don't get a 9mm...especially if you want it for defense. You'll need at LEAST a .40, in which case I recommend the Smith and Wesson SW99. Truly an unfadeable gun.

And if you're still stuck on Glock, get an S&W Sigma. It's the EXACT same gun, only cheaper. In fact, Glock and S&W got in a tremendous legal war over the guns, since they are exactly alike.

'cause it seems to me that some of the handguns i've seen called 'single action' here are actually single/double. fire-able both with or without first cocking the hammer.

hell, mine works that way, of course, i don't want to confuse anyone.

and btw, whiskey, a 9mm is perfectly good for self-defense if loaded with appropriate ammo for the job. using a .22 for defense would be ass-stupid, but then again most people who over estimate their need for firepower only drool over a name and number. much like guys at bars.

personally, i could kill a man much more easily with a 9mm than .40 cal. why? because the 9mm fits my hands better and i can actually /aim/ the son of a bitch. trust me, you plug someone in the heart, lungs, head, liver with a 9mm loaded with starburst teflon hollowpoints, he's not getting up.

then again, i'm guessing some of the testosterone filled inhabitants of this forum would suggest absolutely nothing less than a .50 desert eagle, or maybe a thompson center with a 30-30 barrel and a scope.

btw, where are you gong to conceal that cannon?
------------------
kuru
'sex is one of the most beautiful and natural things that money can buy' - steve martin

This message has been edited by kuru on January 04, 2001 at 04:28 AM

Kuru, I agree with your choice, although the .40 slots between the 9mm and the .45 in terms of velocity and weight, if it doesn't fit in with your lifestyle, you'll tend to store it away rather than have it close enough when you need it.

My mum had a .380 ACP Taurus (a beretta action - essentially a .9mm short) We had an armed intruder in the house in So. Africa, he held a knife and a gun to her. She didn't have hers as it's too big for her. A bad choice on behalf of the person that reommended it to my folks. She wasn't harmed, but it points out that any weapon is useless if 1: you don't have it near 2: you aren't prepared to kill if you have one. You HAVE to be prepared to make the choice take a human life if you wish to defend yourself with one.

The right ammo is important. I had to put down a dog once. Size of a large Boxer. Used Federal Hydra-shoks. 1 to the head behind the ear and it was instantly dead. Absolutley no fucking around. No pain.
Note for those upset by my last comment. I did not do it for kicks, it was just a job to be done. Life on the farm is different from the city and Lassie reruns. Deal with it.

------------------
Men's Rules for women number 30:
If you don't dress like the Victoria's Secret girls, don't expect us to act like soap opera guys.

over here in australia guns are fuckin outlawed.

Most worthles, unreliable piece of shit ever to toss bullets down range. If you give this gun any give straight back (like you want to hit the target again and not the guy behind you) it will not cycle right. The gun sucks!

Now if you want a .50 cal pistol Bowen has a fine revolver. If you can hold the damm thing, its a bit big.

Remember, guns dont kill people, death is casued by the transference of kenitic energy and hydrostatic shock.

------------------
Leaving the trees was a bad idea.

This message has been edited by Wolfguard on January 04, 2001 at 08:59 AM

quote:

---

Originally posted by Observer:
Neophyre's post reminded me of a Bill Hicks ...

---

great stuff, great stuff . believe that's a track off relentless...4 or 5 maybe...

Anyhow, Kuru - yes, I know the difference between single and double...I refer to the "single action 1st, double action thereafter" merely as "single" because its doubtful anyone in this thread is going to bring up nostalgic black power guns...

Anyhow, here's my problem with choosing a 9mm over a .45:

The benefit to 9mm is in it's piercing factor (cars, doors, light armor, etc.) and it's allowance of a round capacity. Of course, the latter of these two is nullified, at least here in CA, by the crappy law prohibiting anything over a 10 round mag...

Basically, the .45 is a slower, heavier bullet with a larger diameter – a mass and force ratio optimized for killing. The .45 is going to give you more resistance over it’s larger surface area, and thus it is more likely to actually stop in it’s target, and subsequently cause hydrostatic shock.

All power that goes through a target via a passing projectile is wasted. Hence, the problem with 9mm,: it travels very fast, has less surface area, and weighs far less. As such, it is very likely to completely pass through your attacker. This can be bad in a combat scenario.

In details, we are pitting the average 230 grain hollow point .45 with about a 130 grain 9mm. The .45 is moving at about 780-810 fps. Unless you have the CorBons…then you’re at over 1000 fps. You could drop a moose, man.

So, overall it’s the .45s superior wound ballistics and ability to create a larger wound cavity that have me convinced it is a better defensive round. Every study ever conducted (from the LFI to the FBI) will agree, in the sense that the .45 has more "stopping power".

Oh, and though the recoil is significantly stronger, you can find compact .45s that are actually smaller than your standard 9mm.

Theres nothing wrong with using a .22 for self defence, provided you take the time to learn how to aim. You can find quite a few with a laser sight off the front as well. That makes it light weight and fairly intimidating with the laser sight.

You have to remember, that even though they make these guns look like they weight 3 ounces in Hollywood, most of them pack a good weight. So its really all personal which type of gun you get. Just make sure it works well for you.

------------------
When my flying days are over, and my death has come to pass
I hope they bury me upside down, so the whole damn world can kiss my ass

Choice: Line up a .22 and fire a pound of lead into them, or fire a .45 round and hit them anywhere on the body... or not even hit them. Hearing a .45 round whiz by you will make you wet your pants and give up presently. A .22 round hurts and makes you react to it in pain. A .45 round spins you in circles and works in ways much quicker than the human reflex system. That second is an incredibly valuable second. I would prefer a large caliber weapon with a lot of leeway against Mr. PCP Robber Boy.

The only issue is finding a good balance between stopping power, comfort, and skill. That's why I prefer being around the .40 cal/ 9mm range, although I tend to sway toward the Colt 1911 design occasionally.

------------------
"I didnt know cows had boobs, I just thought they had that big nutsack with all the wieners hanging off it" - Beavis

Metal/Electronic/Ambient etc..
< http://www.mp3.com/fatbitch >

what kind of gun did agent smith use in the matrix? im sure your all gonna say it was pure shit or somethin, but it looked cool....

quote:

---

Originally posted by fatbitch:
but i like being able to walk down the street and know that the chances of anyone i see actually possessing a gun are very very remote.

---

Very good point, being in uk i like to think that if i get mugged by someone the most they're really gonna have (unless you live in croydon or liverpool) is gonna be a knife which if they're just some dumb kid i can deal with (if they know what they're doing i'd just give them the wallet) now if they had a gun and they panic or you look at them funny they is gonna "cap yo ass" even if you have a gun (i suppose you're all intending to walk around with your hand on the trigger which is what they are definitely gonna be doing when they approach you).

Also with homebreak-ins, why the hell do you think theys gonna be carrying a gun, cos they think you are thats why! you dont think they'll hear you sneak up on them? they'll be expecting it. are you willing to have several lumps of metal violently inserted in your torso at high velocity (don't matter which fuckin' caliber they have! you think you can dodge bullets?) just for the loss of your vcr and the odd bit of expensive stuff? thats what insurance for. here endeth the lesson now go out and shoot each other please so i can sleep more soundly in my bed

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dark Knight Bob
you think you can dodge bullets?

---

..when I'm done, I won't have to.

------------------
When my flying days are over, and my death has come to pass
I hope they bury me upside down, so the whole damn world can kiss my ass

This message has been edited by j0eSmith on January 04, 2001 at 09:01 PM

sure, the difference is an approximately 22 lb trigger pull versus a 3 lb trigger pull with the hammer already cocked, but most semi-autos i've fired will do either single or double on the first shot.

also, it's moot if you've just pulled the slide, because the slide cocks the hammer anyway, so after chambering a round on a slide action there is no need to cock the hammer.

though there is the fact that i tend to keep a round chambered, which means i've gotta de-cock after loading so that i don't go and accidentally shoot myself or someone else. i specifically like the semi autos because with my small hands, i can't always get the thumb reach to quickly cock the hammer, but hell, i have the strength to pull the trigger and fire that first round.

also, if you want to kill a man, the ammunition and the location of the shot are generally more important than the caliber of the gun. .45 with target rounds to the calf is not going to have nearly the effect of .38 hollowpoint to the head.

which is why PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE, TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN.

you are definitely right about one thing though. if you're not prepared to kill, there's no sense having a gun for defense.

i have shot everything from .22 to .50 to 410 pistol (yes, they exist... little pieces of shit that they are) to the thompson with the 30-30 barrel on it. personally, for me, i stand my best chance of a kill-shot with a 9mm.

and there's also another little law of physics that you're going to need to remember to add to your statement about seeing .45's that are smaller than 9mms. the smaller the gun, the less momentum it has. that means more of the recoil energy gets absorbed by your body. simply put, a super-light, high power gun is going to kick like a sonofabitch.

case in point would be my 7lb mountain rifle (it's a 280) versus an .06 that weighs 11 lbs. i shoot 156 to 160 grain when i'm out for deer, and it gives that gun a sweet little kick that caused my dad to bruise his collarbone and slice his eye open on my scope.

and honestly, neo, it's not scary how much i know about guns. it's reassuring. to me anyway. i grew up around them. my whole life, there has been a gun collection in my house. if i didn't know what i did, if i hadn't been taught proper respect, who knows. i might've played with those guns and been a dead kuru.

second amendment.. the right to protect the other 9.

------------------
kuru
'sex is one of the most beautiful and natural things that money can buy' - steve martin

Practice is one thing, but you don't get a lot of practice in high tension situations. As much target practice as you have, odds are you can't put 5 in a dime in that situation. I want to hit somebody anywhere with a high caliber round, not pluck away with a .22. I said before, a .22 works by inflicting pain, which takes a short while for the brain to realize. A .45 works by throwing the body out of alignment and messing with reflexes and muscles. That's much more instantaneous. Plus, it buys you enough time to let off another shot. I like leeway in that situation.

As for saving my VCR? If somebody breaks into my apartment, and it's not going to be very big, and they have a gun? They probably planned on killing me as it is. I want a small chance in hell of fighting back if possible.

I don't live in a friendly city. If I lived in Ingerland, or Canadia, or the Outback, it'd be a different story. I live in the good ol' US of A, so I get to live with that slight increase in risk. Yay freedom! I wouldn't trade my guns for anything

and if you don't want to carry, and want a gun for protection inside the house, get a 12 gauge.

i wasn't referring to you, either, with the comment about single vs double action. i was talking about the comment that souned a lot like 'you always have to cock the hammer first on a semi-auto'

i think i'm starting to get tired, cause i totally just forgot what i was going to say.

------------------
kuru
'sex is one of the most beautiful and natural things that money can buy' - steve martin

"Gimme your wallet."

"Alright."

At least nobody was hurt.

He also goes into this bit about deaths from soccer riots and people using a soccer ball as a deadly weapon. I don't know the exact track name or even which CD it's from. I'll check later and post it here.

------------------
A good programmer is someone who looks both ways on a one-way street

Stuff like that, then you plan your best action, train for it and imagine what you'd need to do. It's exactly the same. You have to decide BEFORE you carry a gun, that if used you WILL kill someone as that's what it's ultimately designed to do and you're only meant to use a weapon when you feel your life is endangered. What is the law with regard to my using this firearm?
Only once you do this can you be a resonsible firearm carrying citizen.

------------------
Men's Rules for women number 30:
If you don't dress like the Victoria's Secret girls, don't expect us to act like soap opera guys.

Oh, yeah, question. What does SOCOM stand for? Is it some sort of military program to develop a new handgun (I just sawy on securityarms.com a Colt SOCOM, and H&K are the ones making it, no?)

Yes, Americans are gun crazy. It's actually possible to find a place here where your bullets won't necessarily hit a person if fired.

The warning on this page makes for interesting reading.

Sithiee - the gun used by the agents is a Desert Eagle .50, the one we had mentioned in earlier posts. There's also a .357, a .44 magnum, a .410 action express, and also a 10" barrel .50. It was originally made by IMI (Israel), but then production went to Magnum Research (US). It's a step up from the crappy Uzi, but it's not much of a combat gun. But it's hard a frickin' nails, and they even make a gold plated titanium one:

If Smith wielded this mofo...I'd side with Cypher.

what constitutes fear for your life? well, if someone breaks into my house in the middle of the night, i'm going to assume they aren't here to bake cookies.

we don't have any 'last locked room' laws, which basically means that it's not necessary to show any proof that you tried to escape the situation before shooting the criminal.

a friend of mine who now lives in college station texas tells me that down there, 'lethal defense of property' is legal. not sure how accurate this is. anyone else know?

------------------
kuru
'sex is one of the most beautiful and natural things that money can buy' - steve martin

quote:

---

Originally posted by kuru:

a friend of mine who now lives in college station texas tells me that down there, 'lethal defense of property' is legal. not sure how accurate this is. anyone else know?
[/B]

---

I would say it safe to assume that it's accurate.. It is Texas, after all....

As for fear for your life? If there was someone who I knew would probably come back to harm me or those close to me, I'd try to taunt them into saying that they'd kill me. Especially if they have a few mates. In court this should stand as a threat to kill.

------------------
Men's Rules for women number 30:
If you don't dress like the Victoria's Secret girls, don't expect us to act like soap opera guys.

quote:

---

what constitutes fear for your life? well, if someone breaks into my house in the middle of the night, i'm going to assume they aren't here to bake cookies.

---

Ah but it may be a frustrated detnetter trying to boink you ...

------------------
-- incubus
As I chase the leaves like the words I never find ...

first i check if it's askheaves.

seriously tho, anybody showing up in the middle of the night for sex is either invited, or a threat.

*shrug*

------------------
kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost

quote:

---

Originally posted by whiskey@throttle:

Sithiee - the gun used by the agents is a Desert Eagle .50, the one we had mentioned in earlier posts. There's also a .357, a .44 magnum, a .410 action express, and also a 10" barrel .50. It was originally made by IMI (Israel), but then production went to Magnum Research (US). It's a step up from the crappy Uzi, but it's not much of a combat gun. But it's hard a frickin' nails, and they even make a gold plated titanium one:

---

And no matter how pretty it is, its still a hunk of shit.

Do not expect to get a second shot on the target in less than 2 seconds with this thing unless you get about 躔 worth of custom work done to it.

------------------
Leaving the trees was a bad idea.

quote:

---

Originally posted by [_^snot^_]:
are all americans gun toting nutcases?

maybe it's just detnet, i'm not sure.

---

Be careful. If you're new around here it is pretty much assumed you are a lam0r. It is probably unwise to make comments like this until people know you well enough to take it in good humour.

quote:

---

Originally posted by [_^snot^_]:
I don't mean to set any stereotypes but...

are all americans gun toting nutcases?

maybe it's just detnet, i'm not sure.

---

i don't own a gun.
i have a knife under my pillow when i sleep.

and besides, it's our right to keep and bear arms, we have guns because most of our "criminals" do. i don't know about you but when (if) someone points a gun at me i would like to return the favor

This message has been edited by pengu1nn on January 08, 2001 at 01:51 PM

I dont really have a major problem with americans owning guns, (you seem to have grown up with it in your culture mabye thats why you so mad about them) its just you think that having a gun makes you safer when it just increases the risk of the burglar to hurt you if he realises you're armed. I'd personally if a burglar broke in and came into my bedroom just say "take what you want man i aint gonna stop ya" or just baracade myself in until he/she went away. After all them having a gun aint gonna make much difference with a bed+wardrobe+chair up against the bedroom door with me taking cover out of the line of fire. Much safer and noone gets killed.

and you can save yourself a lot of money just instaed of buying a gun get a sfx cd put it in your hifi turn it up loud and let off a few simulated gunshots (better than nuthin, or mabye just turn on some real loud music that'll probably scare them off before they get anywhere near you, you underestimate how criminals dont want to get caught, 99/100 times it'll be jus some stupid punk kid who dont know better rather than a pyscho whos planning on taking you down with him.

Woo i wonder how many people could have been bothered to read all that?

criminals in the united states have always had guns, and will always have them. however, there is actual research which has proven that in areas (like texas) where concealed carry is made legal after a long period of it being illegal, violent crime DROPS.

why? because no burglar is going to risk his life for twenty bucks. if they think you might be armed, they go on to someone they know is an easy target.

hard to explain to someone who lives in a country where not even cops have guns, but it's the truth. criminals want victims, not survivors.

------------------
kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost

------------------
A good programmer is someone who looks both ways on a one-way street

Why has no one mentioned the .357 Magnum? Common, its not just any gun that can put a bullet clean through a quarter-inch steel plate.

-edit: spelling
------------------
When my flying days are over, and my death has come to pass
I hope they bury me upside down, so the whole damn world can kiss my ass

This message has been edited by j0eSmith on January 08, 2001 at 08:50 PM

are all americans gun toting nutcases?

maybe it's just detnet, i'm not sure.

------------------
"You see, there's a difference in the communication between British People and People from the USA. Like, we say "caterpillar" and you say "caterpillar". Like you say "Aluminum", and we say "aluminium", you say "erbs" and we say "herbs" because there's a f*cking "H" in it" - Eddie Izard

As for the .357 magnum, why? The other calibre's mentioned are better for self defense. The weapons required for the .357 have to be much heavier to lower recoil. This makes it harder to carry or conceal such a weapon. Sure it's bigger and stuff, but so is an anti tank weapon. It'll kill him just as well, but it's also unsuitable to carry easily.

------------------
Men's Rules for women number 30:
If you don't dress like the Victoria's Secret girls, don't expect us to act like soap opera guys.

quote:

---

Originally posted by [_^snot^_]:
I don't mean to set any stereotypes but...

are all americans gun toting nutcases?

---

No, we don's all have guns but we can if we want.

------------------
Leaving the trees was a bad idea.

quote:

---

Originally posted by j0eSmith:
Why has no one mentioned the .357 Magnum? Common, its not just any gun that can put a bullet clean through a quarter-inch steel plate.

---

Just spend the money and get a 9mm and tungston core rounds. They will go through 1.5 inches of steel. Or just go all the way with the AP rounds and use DPU. Not only will you blast a hole in the plate you will set fire to what is behind it.

Its not the gun that can shoot through steel, its the round fired from it. A 357 will not shoot through a steel plate with hollow points.

------------------
Leaving the trees was a bad idea.

quote:

---

a guy robbing a bank will tend to buy one.

---

If he is in england, and wants a pistol, it would be faster to smuggle one in from somewhere. I think that the UK's gun laws are similar to Australia's in regard to pistols, and its pretty hard to get pistols over here.

------------------
Remember, its all your fault.

------------------
A good programmer is someone who looks both ways on a one-way street

it's a 'shall issue' state, which means that in order to DENY someone the right to a ccw (concealed carry warrant), they have to GIVE YOU a reason.

also, pennsylvania issues non-resident ccw. which means any united states citizen can apply here. the only restrictions are that you have to be 21 years old, never convicted of a crime for which the punishment was incarceration of more than a year, never committed against your will to a mental hospital, have 2 references, provide a photo, photo identification and a social security card, and pay ร.

the permit is good for five years, after which if there's no reason for it to be revoked, it's renewed for ร.

for anyone who is interested in the concealed carry laws where they live (sorry, this only applies to the americans) call your county sheriff's office, or try < http://www.packing.org >

------------------
kuru
'dancing is the vertical expression of horizontal desire.'
-robert frost

I bought my new handgun this weekend. I bought a 9mm Beretta 92FS. All black, 15 round capacity clips, and fucking pretty. It has one smooth action, perfect grip, nice recoil, and a lovely decocker.

We ran through about 200 shots with it this weekend up in the mountains. My buddy emptied 15+1 shots in about 1.5 seconds with reasonable accuracy. Plus, Kuru is one hell of a shot.

92fs is a good gun. good mod for it is to get it ported. They cut a slot a the end of the barrel to let some of the gas excape up off the nose of the gun. this totaly kills the muzzle climb from multi shots.

------------------
Fucknuggets flamed while you wait.< TeamWolfguard.com >

------------------
Fucknuggets flamed while you wait.< TeamWolfguard.com >