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Observer 
I once watched, but I have left.
Group: Members
Posts: 912
Joined: May 2000
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Posted on: Sep. 05 2000,23:14 |
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Not to mention all the more serious prescription drugs people take without so much as a second thought! Just look at all the TV ads for new prescriptions. They are marketing serious chemical compounds much like the old patent remedies as cure-alls or some crap.Case in point (excuse that it's not a human drug): Ivermectin (manufactured by Merck): used in HeartGard for dogs and various other treatments. Dosage: 7 micrograms I'll use a Neal Stephenson/Sangamon Taylor reference here and say that's about the size of 7 periods. I know a guy who mixed a small amount of the stuff with paint and painted the bottom of his boat with it. Barnacles died when they tried to attach themselves. On another note, I was listening to an NPR program some years ago where a doctor said that pharmaceutical-grade heroin is not actually damaging to the human body. Just some food for thought, though it will probably end up fuel for flames... ------------------
A good programmer is someone who looks both ways on a one-way street
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kuru
Detonate.net's 9mm wielding geek-hit-Goddess
Group: Members
Posts: 2566
Joined: Aug. 2000
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Posted on: Sep. 05 2000,23:35 |
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i don't hate drugs. they've got their uses, and i'll be the first person to admit i'm addicted to caffeine and that i really like alcohol.what i do have a problem with is people on drugs. people who think that some chemical substance is their 'get-out-of-life-free' card to use whenver they don't want to deal with reality, because generally these are the people who believe it's impossible to be open minded or enlightened unless your brain is chemical soup. hey, if you want to turn your melon into a bowl of cottage cheese, that's fine by me, but going around calling people hypocrites and insulting them for not thinking the way you do isn't exactly a result of drugs making you smarter or wiser. if anything, it's closed the mind you claim it's opened. quote:
Originally posted by damien_s_lucifer:
I hate people who think they're better than others because they're straight-edge... loosen up, you morons!
sounds a lot like you're sayin you're better than those who are straight edge. who was it you were calling a hypocrite again?
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kuru
'if your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd kill you in your sleep.' -frank zappa [This message has been edited by kuru (edited September 05, 2000).]
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damien_s_lucifer
Emperor of Detnet
Group: Members
Posts: 33
Joined: Jan. 1970
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Posted on: Sep. 06 2000,00:26 |
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kuru... where do I say I think I'm better than people who are straight edge? I have a few friends that don't drink, smoke, or otherwise party down. Their opinion is that they personally aren't into that shit. They don't care that I am.However, I do think I'm better than people who think they are better and/or smarter than me because they don't do drugs... or that doing drugs automatically kills your brain. All that says to me is those people haven't done their research and are simply talking out their ass. Some drugs will make you stupid very quickly (MPTP, huffing gasoline). Some drugs will make you stupid only if you overdose or otherwise use them excessively (Ecstasy, methamphetamine, LSD, alcohol). Some drugs won't make you stupid, period (marijuana, caffeine). Of course a lot of drugs will make you temporarily stupid until they wear off... but that's the point. Those of us who do drugs responsibly can and do deal with reality. Sometimes we need to take a break from it. Saying we shouldn't is like saying schools shouldn't have recess, workplaces shouldn't allow breaks, and people shouldn't sleep. Everyone needs downtime to function effectively. A hypocrite is someone that doesn't practice what he or she preaches. A moron is someone who judges without knowledge. An open mind isn't afraid to call it as it sees it... but also isn't afraid to admit when it's wrong. [This message has been edited by damien_s_lucifer (edited September 05, 2000).]
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Sithiee
FNG
Group: Members
Posts: 1941
Joined: May 2000
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Posted on: Sep. 06 2000,00:35 |
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i personally disagree. i think drug use of any kind is a sign of a bigger problem, and i really dislike it when people i know are into it. but im also not one of those people who goes around preaching that im better, but i do personally feel im in a better position, but thats the same way a jew is more likely to feel better about himself as a jew than as a christian, if that makes sense. but yeah, i think drugs are bad, they fuck you up, and if you cant have fun any other way, you really do have a problem.
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damien_s_lucifer
Emperor of Detnet
Group: Members
Posts: 33
Joined: Jan. 1970
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Posted on: Sep. 06 2000,03:20 |
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quote:
Originally posted by The_Hiro:
kuru's correct. You are a hypocrite. Your hypocrisy stems from your attack on straight-edge individuals, whom you claim are morons for believing themselves to be superior to you, whilest you implicitly believe yourself to be superior to straight-edgers.
I said a hypocrite is one that doesn't practice what he preaches. I never said morons are people that believe themselves to be superior to someone else. I said "a moron is someone who judges without knowledge."I preach that drugs are good. I can back this up because I've done my research by reading about them, observing other people take them, and taking them myself. People who DON'T take drugs (I spent the first 19 years of my life clean & sober), and only read anti-drug literature (I've read a ton of this), are researching the subject very minimally... then they go out and judge others that DO take drugs, telling them they're weak and killing their brains etc., without knowing what the fuck they're talking about. If you don't want to take drugs, that's fine with me, I'll respect you for it. But don't try and shove it down my throat by legislating it. quote:
By extension, you're adopting the position that drug use makes you 'smarter' and 'wiser' than non-drug users (straight-edgers). Do you know this for a fact?
I'm certainly not adopting that position. I only said that they have made ME smarter and wiser, and I know this because I remember how I was before I started taking them. I was an anti-drug fanatic who wouldn't be friends with anyone who did them, because I thought people that did them were morons. I didn't consider anything that was influenced by drugs to have any worth. Sound familiar? By the way, the guy that got me into drugs just got his MS in mathematics... a 4.0 average... he once told me "I always take tests when I'm high. It makes things that used to bore me absolutely fascinating. I pay more attention to what I'm doing. That's how it makes me smarter."
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kuru
Detonate.net's 9mm wielding geek-hit-Goddess
Group: Members
Posts: 2566
Joined: Aug. 2000
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Posted on: Sep. 06 2000,15:42 |
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quote:
Originally posted by damien_s_lucifer:
Some drugs will make you stupid only if you overdose or otherwise use them excessively (Ecstasy, methamphetamine, LSD, alcohol). Some drugs won't make you stupid, period marijuana, caffeine).
as to your first sentence, LSD and Ecstacy are chemicals specifically designed to alter brain chemistry. they work because they change the chemicals that travel between synapses in the brain. with any drug that does this, there's a fairly high risk that the brain will never go back to a normal state, even if it is altered only once. that is, anything that alters brain chemistry is naturally dangerous to the normal function of the brain. second, marijuana and caffeine aren't even close to being the same class of drug. THC works on the brain itself, whereas caffeine's biggest effect is to cause the body to release more of its own adrenaline, endorphins, raise heart rate and constrict capillaries. caffeine doesn't directly work on the brain. and while the doses of THC necessary to cause actual brain damage are extremely high (lethal dose is 10 lbs of marijuana per hour, for 48 hours), that's not to say that it doesn't have an effect. it's also a danger to the lungs. not as much so as tobacco smoke, because there is less tar and often fewer chemicals added. which brings up another point about marijuana. in and of itself, smoking a joint is going to be less harmful to your body than smoking a cigarette, unless it's laced with something. any liquid drug can be dripped onto a joint and allowed to dry, quite a few of which DO have serious effects. unless you know that nothing's been added to that marijuana, you can't claim it won't do anything to your brain. a joint laced with a bad bacth of E might end with a trip to the hospital. so, damien, while i might not be there dropping acid or sticking needles full of heroin into my veins, i'm hardly a moron. to act like you know more about drugs than someone who doesn't actually do drugs is pretty foolish. quote:
Originally posted by kazoo: I think straight-edge is a front for kids who choose to stay sober. There is nothing straight about it. Most edgers end up frustrated and angy with life,joining a group of straight edgers bent on stopping the use of drugs, and then violently acting out against someone they love. This is well documented and I believe it has to do with a lack of personal release of agression.
i'm not "straight edge" but i do choose not to do drugs like E, acid, cocaine, heroin. i smoke weed sometimes, not to prove something to my friends or to make myself smarter, just to cut loose and relax. i also know that it's got negative impacts on me, just like everything else. after all, the reason we get drunk from alcohol is because it's a poison. i guess you could call me more "straight edge" than most, but i hardly see how it's a front for anything. it hasn't made me aggressive, frustrated or violent. it's also not the case that drugs are the only release for agression. if that's what you're saying, then drugs are a crutch. they're an excuse not to get off your ass and live. not that i'm picking on drugs only, i dislike any form of excuse to hide from life. like i said before, i have no problem with people doing drugs if they so choose. but recognize that it is a choice and not something that the evil, frustrating world made you do. to say that you have to do drugs because you're young and angsty is a cop-out. don't make excuses. if you choose to do drugs because of the way you feel when you're high, admit to it. i drink. i get drunk. i smoke weed sometimes. why? not because i have some sort of inability to deal with my agression issues or my frustration, but because i like it. most of the time, i'm sober, because i also like the way my brain works when chemicals like alcohol and thc aren't influencing the thought process. ok.. this post is way too long, so i'll just step back.. and watch the flames. ------------------
kuru
'if your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd kill you in your sleep.' -frank zappa [This message has been edited by kuru (edited September 06, 2000).]
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