quote:

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Originally posted by cr0bar:
Actually, you have that backwards. If you [b]do vote, you can't complain.
[/B]

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cr0 said this in another forum but I thought it made a pretty interesting topic so I have created a topic and will address it here.

I don't agree with cr0 on this. Under the so-called democracy practiced in both Canada and the US the only input that citizens are able to have in the governing system is through voting. By voting the citizen is stating their preference for a particular candidate and political party. If one does not vote they have given up their right to have a say in the political process. This point gets to what cr0bar was replying to in the first place. I argue that if one gives up their right to have a say in the political process they shouldn't complain. Why? Because they didn't care enough to try and change things so why should they complain about the way things are going now? If the only way to effect change under our current "democractic" system is to vote, then by not voting one is giving up their right to effect change - thus they should not complain when things do not turn out in their favour, since they didn't try to change the system to begin with. On this same note though, I also tend to argue that people who vote for the governing party shouldn't complain about them either, since they voted them in! Of course governing parties don't always do what they said they were going to do.

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"Our hopes are high. Our faith in the people is great. Our courage is strong and our dreams for this beautiful country will never die" -Pierre Elliot Trudeau

VP Fucknugget could beat Gov Bonehead by 90\% of the popular vote and still get into office because of the way it works.

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Nuke em' till they glow and shoot em’ in the dark and let the computer sort em' out.
Then wait for a mutation…

Especially since a good portion of a political official's term is spent trying to get reelected the following term.

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A good programmer is someone who looks both ways on a one-way street

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"Our hopes are high. Our faith in the people is great. Our courage is strong and our dreams for this beautiful country will never die" -Pierre Elliot Trudeau

I also think the people should be able to call a vote to remove the fucknugget they put in office. If 70\% of the people vote to remove him in march then we have a new election in November.

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Nuke em' till they glow and shoot em’ in the dark and let the computer sort em' out.
Then wait for a mutation…

quote:

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Originally posted by Wolfguard:
then there is the fact that even if the popular vote picks a winner it's another group of people that realy pick the prez.

VP Fucknugget could beat Gov Bonehead by 90\% of the popular vote and still get into office because of the way it works.

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the electorial vote has only changed one election (i think it was jackson or johnson?)

so why does everyone worry about it? sure it would suck if it happened but i'm not going to worry about it because it only has a small chance in hell of happening.

on a different note, why would someone only vote democrat or repub. in every single election regaurdless of who the canidate is. that just seems stupid to me?

This message has been edited by pengu1nn on November 01, 2000 at 11:19 AM

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Originally posted by pengu1nn:
on a different note, why would someone only vote democrat or repub. in every single election regaurdless of who the canidate is. that just seems stupid to me?

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Well, otherwise some actual thought about the candidates would be required. And to form any real opinion about them, you would have to actually research what their position was. And to do that you would probably have to read the newspaper and watch the debates and stuff. And that's just way too much work for some people...

quote:

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Originally posted by dido:
I don't agree with cr0 on this. Under the so-called democracy practiced in both Canada and the US the only input that citizens are able to have in the governing system is through voting. By voting the citizen is stating their preference for a particular candidate and political party.

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"Everyone's favorite implement for any task"
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quote:

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Originally posted by cr0bar:
"If you vote, and you elect dishonest incompetent people and they get into office and screw everything up, ...

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...then you still may have improved the country over what it might have been if you hadn't voted and someone even worse had been elected. But if the cards are stacked against you because voting is reduced to a choice of the lesser of two evils, then you have every right to complain because the system is structured in such a way that there is no way that your vote can improve anything.

quote:

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Originally posted by cr0bar:
[QUOTE]
I can see how it would go both ways, but don't immediately discount my statement.

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I wasn't discounting your statement cr0, I was merely disagreeing with it. However since you have explained it I can see how it can go both ways. In the US it's harder to vote since it's only a two party system, the choices are limited. But like I said before if everyone who wants to vote for a third party did so the chances of having a two party system afterwards would be pretty slim. Perhaps everyone or noone should complain.

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"Our hopes are high. Our faith in the people is great. Our courage is strong and our dreams for this beautiful country will never die" -Pierre Elliot Trudeau